Peter is joined by Steve McLean, Head of Agriculture and Fisheries Sourcing at M&S to talk about connecting with the public. Peter also speaks to Cornish farmers Pete and Jenny Olds from Cornhill Farm.
In this episode, Peter is joined by Steve McLean, Head of Agriculture and Fisheries Sourcing at M&S to discuss connecting with the public. What can farmers and retailers learn from each other? In the middle of the show Peter speaks to Cornish farmers Pete and Jenny Olds from Cornhill Farm to discover their secrets of connecting with the public.
In this second series of Farming Focus we're asking the question 'does my farm have a future?'.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
For our podcast disclaimer click here.
Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle
00:14 Peter Green introduces the show
01:07 Peter's Future Farm in 60 seconds.
02:15 Peter introduces Steve McLean, today's guest.
02:28 Steve comes in.
03:16 The Buy British aisle and how M&S supports UK ag.
04:14 Valuing UK produce and British sourcing.
05:49 What do consumers pick up on when it comes to messaging around food?
07:48 What is the role of the farm in marketing messages?
09:00 Who's job is it to engage with customers?
11:43 How can the supply chain work together in future?
13:35 Peter speaks to Pete and Jenny Olds.
14:02 Pete introduces Cornhill Farm.
14:42 @cornhillfarm on instagram and Jack Cam.
14:58 Jenny talks about social media and marketing.
17:44 Why is it important for farmers to engage with the public?
19:05 Others in the industry are reliant on agricuilture.
19:42 What 3 skills or attributes will farmers of the future need in order to be successful? - adapt, be good at communicating and be diverse. Reactive; friendly; chatty.
22:00 Returning to Steve McLean - on engaging with the public.
23:20 Steve's 3 skills/attributes that farmers of the future will need - communication; be different; open to the next gen.
24:58 Showstoppers.
27:04 Peter rounds up.
Cornish Mutual, Farming Insurance Experts.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Farming Focus, the podcast for Southwest farmers brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I'm your host Peter Green and today's podcast focus is about connecting with the public. And we're asking why this is important for the future of farming. We'll also be asking what farmers can learn from retailers in their approach to the public and as communities grow and change, what does that mean for farmers?
Also, a quick reminder, if you have any ideas for future topics or burning issues that you want us to discuss, then please send an email to podcast at cornishmutual. co. uk To start each episode, I'm sharing one thing I'm doing on my farm to help it thrive into the future. And I have to do this in less than a minute.
It's time for Peter's Feature Farm in 60 seconds. Start the clock.
One of the reasons that I sell my beef direct is because I love speaking to the end consumer and getting them on farm. Something that I hope to do in the future is to host a farm walk for customers when they all collect their beef. We've done farm walks for small groups before and the response is positive and immediate.
They're surprised by the extent to which we look to incorporate nature. We walk through a herbal lay and pick out different grasses and herbs. People are astounded by the variety. This leads on to explaining how grazing our cattle actually helps us achieve carbon negativity, which stuns visitors. They understand how cherished the animal is through each stage of its life by seeing how quiet and well kept they are.
The best bit is that they become evangelists, whetting appetites for produce like ours and leaving the people they talk to wanting to know more. But for podcast listeners, I hope this underlines that what seems routine to you is incredible to the general public. So don't worry about what to say to people, just look for the opportunity to say it.
I'm joined today by Steve McLean, who is head of agriculture and fishery sourcing at Marks Spencer. Steve, welcome to the podcast. Tell us a little bit more about your role at M& S. Thank you for hosting this podcast. My role at M& S is really exciting and interesting. Um, I, uh, work with a team of specialists within the business and we interact with about eight and a half thousand UK farmers, fish farmers, and fishermen.
And we have accountability for the standards that we source to, and really excitingly for us, also the innovation that We build into our supply chains to deliver great quality innovative food that our customers enjoy. Gosh, what a job. And uh, yeah, it sounds like you must get to some amazing places. The MP, Dr.
Luke Evans coordinated a crossbench campaign in the autumn of 2023, which resulted in a number of things. Food retailers introducing, uh, by British Isle in store and some of them online in early 2024. How can MNS improve the way it prioritizes UK grown and produced food? I think we've actually got a very strong position in supporting UK agriculture.
Um, there's very few proteins are actually sourced from outside the UK. Um, and that's not something that's just happened. That's been a position for a long time. We believe in sourcing quality first, provenance second. And we're very pleased that the UK delivers on that quality message for British consumers.
Now, that said. There are certain products that because of disease risk, et cetera, we do make sure that we spread our sourcing areas, but we're very simple policy, um, of British first, best of the rest where necessary. Thank you very much. And so when it comes to the, the customers, your customers, the consumer, how are you conveying the value of British produce to them?
Um, I think our customer set has always appreciated the fact that M& S supports UK, um, farming and, um, British sourcing. We're clearly a known brand retailer, so everything we do is in our own brand, uh, and that means that, uh, we work really hard to make sure not only that we never disappoint the customer, but that we work with farmers and growers to deliver great quality, innovative products.
Our reason for being is to give consumers an exceptional eating experience and we do that through partnering with the best supply chains, the most forward thinking producers who deliver day in, day out, the great quality that our customers expect. So it isn't something new for us to be championing UK farming.
Um, indeed, you know, I've been involved in the business for 15 years. And our supply chains today in the UK are still the supply chains that we had when I joined the business, probably stronger, but in many cases, second, third and fourth generation, um, suppliers, uh, into us, that's something that we're very, very proud of because it's that long term relationships recognizing that everyone in the supply chain needs to earn a fair living to be able to invest for the future that has successfully set us apart.
What stories about British food really resonate with the consumers though? So we've heard a bit about, um, supply chain and, and how you've, you really value, um, that, but when it comes to the consumer, what does your research show that they particularly sort of, you know, pick up on and when it comes to messaging around the food consumers have a real.
Passion, an increasing passion probably since COVID about understanding where food comes from. I think there's still a view by many that the consumers don't care. They do care, very passionate about animal welfare, very passionate about making sure that farmers are looked after. I'm sure Your listeners will have heard the stat that's been banded about in the last couple of weeks that farmers are the most trusted profession next to nursing.
And I don't think that should be a great surprise to those of us that know how UK farming operates and the steps that everybody goes to to produce great quality day in day out. Consumers Expect a lot, and I think get a lot from UK farming. We're maybe not that good as an industry, um, in telling all the great stories about the work that happens on UK farms day in, day out, because it's not just about looking after animals to the best of everybody's ability.
It's also about managing a fairly vulnerable environment and doing it in a way that consumers get the public benefit of it. Associated with that. I think we're moving into a really interesting era where not only do we hear a lot more about climate change and the risks and problems that come with that, but also the changes to environment and what can and can't be farmed.
Um, associated with that by talking more about the great work that's already happening on farms, as well as the work that will have to be done to help us reduce carbon as a society. Farmers are placed uniquely to be able to do that, deliver great food and also help the environment. Yeah. So when it comes to marketing, you know, we're talking about the farm as a window today.
What role does the farm play in, in those marketing messages? It plays a huge role. I think consumers trust farmers. Therefore they trust the product that farmers produce. That again has something that's been well understood by marketeers for a long time. As a, probably one of the most trusted brands, uh, in the high street have always had it.
great trust in our farmers. That's why we have our select farm program and why we're very proud to talk about only sourcing for farms we know and trust in the context of M& S food. But it's not just that trust is important. Farmers willingness to invest in innovation and change their farming practices will be great for the future, not only around ensuring that.
UK consumers benefit, but also how they will play their part in helping society meet some of the challenges that we're facing into some farmers might say that it isn't their job to engage directly with the public, rightly or wrongly. And, you know, that perhaps, um, you know, there are membership organizations and they pay their subscriptions for other people to do that for them, but, you know, is that true?
You know, what's the value that can be derived. by farmers from engaging with the public in some way. I think it's everybody's job in the food industry and farming is part of the food industry to engage with, uh, with customers. That said, I absolutely understand that some people find it easier than others to do that kind of direct engagement, but I think there's a real opportunity.
We used to organize what we called Uh, meet the farmer events, and I always remember when we were doing those events, which is basically taking farmers into stores where they met with customers, a how passionate farmers were about their product and consumers in stores absolutely got that, but also some of the.
Views that farmers have around what's important to customers, unfortunately, may not be quite as prominent as they would wish. So sometimes it's about just getting a better understanding of what makes your end customer tick and more importantly, what makes them pick something off a shelf or leave it on a shelf.
And customers are more choice than they've ever had. So trying to have short, sharp supply chains. The primary producer is pretty close to the retail shelf. It's really important to us. We want our farmers and growers or the farmers and growers that we rely on to create great quality. We want them to understand consumer thinking is and what not just importantly thinking, but what consumers actually do in a store so that we can make better informed choices around some of the investment decisions that we do do on an annual basis.
To differentiate our product in this conversation. We've talked a lot about quality. We've talked about short supply chains. We've talked about the need for trust, but increasingly going forward. It's also going to be about demonstrating how food has been proved. Produce the way that's not detrimental to the environment that food is produced in such a way that habitats for wildlife are created.
And those of us close to the industry know that that's already happening. So this is an opportunity to kind of bring to life the great work that. And the vast majority of farms is going on already day in day out. Yes, it might need to be enhanced slightly, and we might need to find different ways of talking about it.
But what we want to do is work collaboratively so that we're giving customers Not just a great product, but a great story that they can trust that demonstrates that UK agriculture is leading the world. Cornish Mutual, Farming Insurance Experts. This series is thinking about the future of farming. And one thing that I'm quite interested to get your thoughts on is how can the supply chain work together in future to make sure that food and farming messaging and telling the positive stories that farmers have got.
Can be done. You know, we need that partnership, don't we? Yeah, we do. We do. And I'm, I'm completely fixated in trying to work out how we create shorter, sharper supply chains where customers have better access to farmers. Farmers have better access to customer feedback and customer insight. We've been very fortunate at M& S that we have a number of supply chains that we describe as tripartite.
The kind of traditional retail supply chain is linear. It's retailer to supplier, supplier to farmers. And sometimes there's two or three suppliers in the middle of that relationship. We definitely, um, over the years have worked really hard to create this tripartite relationship where you've got the retailer, the processor and the supplier in the same conversation, if not the same room.
And that is what has allowed us to develop the kind of Iconic products like our M& S milk, the only RSPCA assured milk on the high street, our pathway beef, our salmon, our oak and gold chicken, and a host of other products. It's been about creating relationships where we trust one another. Sometimes where we don't necessarily agree, we can at least get to a point of consensus, but with a clear focus of delivering something that is special and different for the customer.
Yeah. The importance of trust, um, isn't just critical between, uh, the consumer and the producer it's in, in all parties in that supply chain, isn't it? We're now going to hear from Pete and Jenny Olds who farm at Cornhill Farm near Camborne in West Cornwall and among their many awards were finalists in the Poultry Farmer of the Year category at the 2021 Farmers Weekly Awards.
Cornish Mutual, farming insurance experts.
Jenny, Pete, welcome to the show. Pete, can you introduce yourself, giving some background about the farm who's involved, maybe a bit of its history. And then Jenny, could you tell us about yourself, the different enterprises on the farm today, and maybe how you sell your produce and where the business might go in the future?
Hey, how we doing Peter? Um, yeah, no, thanks for having us on. Um, so we're Corneal Farm. We've been here about, um, 110 years now. Um, my great grandfather moved us up from the land and we've been here. We're a mixed farm and have always been a mixed farm. Actually, we've So some kind on the farm currently got about 30 and a half thousand chickens, and we've got an arable enterprise, um, a poultry enterprise, obviously, and we sell a lot of our eggs locally.
So a bit of contracting work as well. And all three sort of run nicely together. You're busy people. All the time. Doesn't stop, even in the winter, if you'd like. And if people want to know more, actually, I must recommend that, um, they take a look at at Cornhill farm on Instagram because, um, the content you guys produce is brilliant.
And I particularly love the Jack cam bits. I don't know if you want to touch on that when you, uh, when you tell us a bit more about who's who's involved, perhaps Jenny. We focus quite heavily on our social media for advertising our eggs. We only started doing that. We supplied Waitrose when we first started doing eggs in 2001 and effectively the supermarkets just weren't paying enough.
We had a packer who was acting as a middleman and they were also taking their share of the profit and it was just making us a loss. So we took the brave decision to leave Waitrose a month before anyone had heard about COVID Yeah. And Which was, um, for us, actually, it's a silver lining in disguise because we went from, um, having a very high demand, well, we sell eggs on our egg stall and we had a very small local round and then the rest went to Waitrose, Stonegate, that being our packer.
And then we gave our 12 months notice, they wouldn't leave us in the 12 months because, um, COVID happened and suddenly everybody wanted eggs. Um, everyone wanted eggs on our egg stall and for us, although COVID was bad, Obviously awful. Actually, it raised our profile and suddenly you weren't, it just weren't a mouthful, it was a bit appetizing.
We could not keep the stall topped up enough with eggs. Is that right? Um, It literally queues the cars every day and since then, after we finished our contract notice period, we had more regs to sell and we grew the business, but we knew we had to advertise ourselves. We rebranded. We used a local designer, Rose Robinson, who was amazing, came and met us, met us and worked with us and learned our family values and that reflected in the marketing.
And sorry, in the brand that she designed. And then we, we refreshed the website, um, and social media really. And we record life on the farm as it happens. It is not glossy. They're not, they're not picture perfect photos. We cover everything from the eggs, um, rats, foxes, the problems, low yields in the grain cropping, new tractors.
The good, the bad, and the ugly. Absolutely. And Jack can. Favorite. So sometimes, um, I give the phone to Jack, like, right, Jack, you record it. And actually just hear a child say, say what they see. Yeah. The commentary is brilliant. Yeah. I mean, the latest one was the pancake race between Pete and I. Oh, that was brilliant.
Pete got such a good start in the pancake race, but then, you know, the sort of cool, calm, serene serenity of Jenny just won through in the end. Maybe helped by the fact that I had the right, um, baking plate on the oven. He had the hot plate, but Yeah, and, um, you know, you see all these lovely old pancake day, you know, really perfectly produced photos.
And I was just like, I just can't do that. I just can't. I did a writing photos. It's like, right, Jack, let's have another glass of wine as well. I did see that on the, on the countertop. I think we actually, we really want to show the realities of living and working on the farm. Um, and that's what we try and do that through a variety of other ways really.
So yeah, education. Social media is just one really. Yeah. So we're thinking today about people's farms as a form of shop window. Um, Jenny, why do you think it's important for farmers to engage with the public? I think it's, it's, it's got to be an absolute priority because ultimately the public are your end consumer.
It's more relevant to us because we are producing a product that you consume directly from the farm. Um, but you know, wheat, potatoes, they still, even if you don't mill it, you know, that there's still your, there's still people's bread they eat every day, potatoes they're using every day. And we were focusing particularly on children through the farm visits.
It was a bit of a marketing tool when we first started, that and the Open Farm Sunday, but actually we had, we are young children now that. They're five and seven, but we realized that when they started school, there wasn't much provision in schools. So we are doing our bit, um, to do that. And also don't forget, it is another income stream.
You know, the education visits under the SFI now paying 363 pounds for a visit, which is ours. And Pete is never going to earn a hundred and, uh, I don't know, what was that? 50 an hour anywhere else off the farm. That's the problem, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. But it pays to do it. You know, if you, even if you don't really enjoy engaging with children, it pays to do it.
But Pete does enjoy engaging with children and they are, they are, they are our future consumer. And, you know, you never know that there may be some future farm workers, farm owners, um, agribusiness owners in the future. Um, cause we're really lacking in them. We need, we need more workers in agriculture.
Industry that is reliant on agriculture as well from your feed merchants and your water pipe fitting manufacturers that everyone's all interconnected really. And there's lots of opportunities for people in the future to get involved with outdoors employment. So yeah, there's more people to champion it better really.
Real opportunities for those allied industries. You know, we want 15, 16 year olds to be thinking about agriculture as, as an option, whether or not they have a family history or any background in it. And I think you're absolutely right. If we're going to do that, we need to get them thinking about their food and where it comes from early on.
I'm now going to ask the final question that we're asking everyone this series and Pete, I'll come to you first. And then the same question for Jenny in three words. What skills or attributes do you think farmers of the future will need in order to be successful? Farmers need to adapt. You need to be good at communicating and you've got to be diverse.
I suppose you've got to be able to jack of all trades. You'll put your hand on lots of aspects and parts of the business. You're not just a farmer. You're an accountant and you're a marketer, salesman. Um, you've got to be able to But a jack of all trades, really. And that actually, I think is something which is in farmer's favor and I think should make the business, the industry really attractive to new entrants, you know, and, and, and to be resilient.
So no, that's, those are some great thoughts. And Jenny, how about you? What are your three words that really, you know, people need to have to be successful in the future? I've been listening to a podcast and trying to think of new words. So I don't want to have new words, but I don't know. I think reactive would be one.
Um, friendly would be another. And my last one would be chatty. Chat to everyone. You never know what, what relationships or communications you might build up, what you might learn, what might they might learn from you. So Pete's very good at being chatty. Yeah, I can, uh, I can definitely confirm that's the case, but, um, yeah, just being ready to, um, to engage with people, you know, and to listen to them and to, you know, I was having a conversation with somebody, um, in the park yesterday after picking up my children and was, um, talking about having carving coming up and they said, sorry.
Calving is that that's literally just a bit where the cast coming out of the car. And he, he was, you know, being really honest and open. He didn't know if there was more to it or if it was a broader period of time that we talk about in the year. And I guess farmers do talk about carving as being a period when we're.
We're having all of the cows born on farm, but it was really good to be talking to that person about why we carve at a certain time and how other farmers don't. So yeah, that engagement and being ready to get into a conversation with people is, is so important. Cornish mutual farming insurance experts.
Steve, I'll come back to you again, uh, having heard from the olds at Cornhill there. Do you have any specific advice for our listeners when it comes to the future of engaging with the public? I think engaging with the public will become increasingly important, not just around food production, but also the vital role that farmers play in managing the environment.
And I think as we move to an era where carbon sequestration and carbon capture on farm is going to be fundamental for the whole of society, um, farmers, being on the front foot and talking positively about what they already do is going to be absolutely key. I also think, um, as we move into an era where, you know, we're all used to social media, the ability to talk openly and honestly about the realities of farming and The difficulty sometimes that comes with the occupation is going to be absolutely important, not just to make sure that the true voice is heard, but also, and I think really importantly, that we create.
the opportunity for the younger generation to make their own mark on our industry and on the great products that UK farms produce. I must move on now to our final question. It's the question that we've been putting to everybody this series. And what I'd like you to tell me is what three skills or attributes do you think farmers of the future will need in order to be successful?
Number one, communicators. They have to be good at communicating about their industry, about their farming practices, about what makes them such a valuable part of society, number one. The second one is very much about Taking a slightly different look at food production and, and, and realizing that food production and environmental protection need to go hand in hand, the societal pressure on agriculture to deliver, deliver the public good, particularly around carbon sequestration is only now starting.
So there will be huge operation opportunities of that. And then the third thing, um, is ensuring that we are creating an industry that the next generation actually want to be part of, that they can see a profitable, sustainable, exciting, and fun future. Gosh, those are, uh, certainly not, um, Not small ambitions.
I think the last one alone is, uh, is something which is an amazing aspiration, but it's definitely one which in my, uh, conversations with farmers, a lot of people feel, feel it's very hard to achieve, but, um, it's great to have those aspirations. It's now time for our showstoppers, um, three nuggets from our discussion for us to take away and cogitate on.
Number one, we're pushing an open door. We've heard from Steve that there's an appetite from the public to engage with farmers and to understand what we do. And this is a real privilege. Many industries would would kill for this opportunity. So if you want to host a farm event, that's great. Um, and there are certainly benefits from doing this as we've heard, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
So maybe think about the different ways that we've heard about you can engage. You could steward a friend's farm event, but Or you could go and speak to a local non farming group, or maybe have a go at um, farmer time. Number two, plan. If you do engage with the public, planning those key messages and the logistics will mean that all parties are most likely to get the message.
The most from the experience, um, there's resources available from leaf and other people, but do ask friends maybe who have done similar things, what worked for them? And if you can maybe speak with a sample of the sort of people that you'll be engaging with, whether that's non farming members of your village W.
I. If you're perhaps going to speak to them or a teacher that you're working with on farmer time, Number three, what's the benefit? Well, we've heard from Pete and Jenny, why they choose to engage with the public. And for me, one of the most important things for UK farmers and us farmers down in the Southwest to do in the face of cheap food imports and a squeezed domestic purse is to talk about how great our produce is.
You know, we can talk about nutrient density and great health outcomes. We can explain why the way we farm is. is actually really good for the environment and how we've got the means of reducing the carbon footprint of our nation and of the planet. And we can strengthen people's links with their community by talking about creating jobs, the circular economy, and about eating local and seasonal.
So think about it. Maybe dip your toe in and do your bit if you can to champion this brilliant industry that we're all a part of. And that's it for today's episode. A big thank you to my guests today, Steve McLean from M& S and Pete and Jenny Olds from Cornhill farm in next week's bonus episode available from next Tuesday, Pete and Jenny will be giving their top tips for running a farm event.
And then we'll be back the following Tuesday, speaking with the fascinating Pete Dr. Amy Jackson on animal welfare and much more, please. Don't forget that. We'd love to hear from you with your questions and suggestions from future episodes. So please email podcast at Cornish mutual. co. uk with them. Do subscribe to the show on whatever podcast platform you use, but also give Give us a rating and a review.
This really helps to spread the word and to strengthen the community that we're all part of. Please also tell everyone in your rural network about the podcast and get them to subscribe as well. Check out the show notes for more information on today's episode, including the link to our podcast disclaimer.
You've been listening to farming focus brought to you by Cornish mutual. I've been Peter Green and until next time, it's goodbye from me and everyone in the Cornish mutual podcast team. Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts.