Host Peter Green meets consultant Heather Wildman to talk about mindset and resilience.
Peter Green is joined for the second episode of this series by Heather Wildman, who is Managing Director of Saviour Associates. Heather did a Nuffield scholarship in 2012 titled ‘’Communication: influencing and motivating change’’ and having been brought up on a sheep and beef farm in the Lake District, she now lives and works in Scotland.
In this series we are focusing on the topic of resilience.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
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Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle.
00:06 Intro music.
00:15 Peter Green introduces the series.
02:03 Heather relates her earliest farming memory.
02:58 Cornish Mutual jingle.
03:11 How often does Heather get down to the south west?
03:44 Heather works all over the country.
05:15 What does resilience mean to Heather? - the art of holding your shape and bouncing back.
07:16 Perspective - how are people best able to get perspective?
09:29 'Owning' your mistakes and how to do this.
12:00 Where are you? Where do you want to be? How to get there?
13:26 Write down five things that you have achieved.
15:50 How can you add value? Ignore others and think about what you can do. What do you want?
16:23 Working with families - why is it important that as farmers we think about mindset in the first place?
18:56 Cornish Mutual jingle.
19:05 To what extent does Heather think that farming as an industry is mentally fit?
21:04 Having time off.
21:20 Thinking about change and dealing with change as a whole.
23:45 Cornish Mutual jingle.
23:58 Scenario analysis and dealing with figures.
25:35 Sir Tom Hunter says 'don't come to me unless you've failed at least four times'.
26:38 Making mistakes.
26:54 Cornish Mutual jingle.
27:00 Prince's Countryside Fund course - Peter's memories from this and the importance of learning from your peers
28:45 Heather's Nuffield - take away points.
29:10 Discussion groups - 'a group without goals is a group that refuses to take responsibility for themselves - information itself does not make things happen - it is the people that make things happen'.
32:46 Cream tea question...jam first or cream first??
33:24 Cornish Mutual jingle
33:29 What does Heather most enjoy about her job?
33:50 Peter starts to round everything up - taking responsibility for yourself; understanding your own value and learning from your mistakes; how you are away from the business and making space for reflection/taking time off.
34:56 'Make time for you'.
35:45 Peter starts to round things up.
37:04 Cornish Mutual jingle.
Cornish Mutual
Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts.
Peter Green
Hello, and welcome to this second episode of Farming Focus, the new podcast brought to you by Cornish Mutual to kickstart conversations in the Southwest farming community. If you're enjoying the podcast so far, please tell everyone in your farming network about it. And get talking to them about resilience, which is the theme of our first series.
We would love everyone in the southwest farming community to be talking about it. And to make sure that you never miss an episode, please hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform and to make sure that we reach as many people as possible, please give us a like and a review. I'm your host, Peter Green, and today we're talking about mindset and reflecting on what a resilient mindset really is, especially in that context of farming and thinking particularly about the challenges that we're facing as an industry at the moment.
I am really excited to be joined today by my guest, Heather Wildman. Hi there, Heather. How you doing?
Heather Wildman
Hi. I'm really good. Thank you. And thank you very much for inviting me.
Peter Green
Oh, not at all. Heather's uh, worked in the farming sector for more than 25 years. She's currently managing Director of Savior Associates, which helps individuals and businesses to really reach their full potential.
I'm very envious that Heather did a Nuffield scholarship in 2012, uh, and that was titled Communication Influencing and Motivating Change. And having been brought up on a sheep and beef farm in the Lake District, Heather has now migrated North and lives in Scotland. Uh, it's great. Great to have you on Heather.
Just to give everyone listening an idea of our guests farming backgrounds, I like to ask each of them for one of their earliest farming memories. What, what would, uh, what would yours be?
Heather Wildman
Oh, um, I think probably, uh, we're on a beef and sheep farm and it was probably at laming time and it was quite a hilly farm where we are, and it would be trailing after mum and dad and they would be getting knocked over by pregnant youth.
Uh, and been told off for being in the wrong place. Yeah. I seem to be, uh, quite gifted and skilled at been in the wrong place at the wrong time and working with livestock.
Peter Green
Yeah, I think it's an occupational hazard, isn't it?
Heather Wildman
Yeah. Uh, they've got a bit of clout. Those, swaledale sheep with the horns as well.
Peter Green
I bet they do. Yeah. Yeah. I can remember, speaking of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In our breast milking parlor, we had a line, the channel down the middle where, um, you know, everything ran, shall we say. And my grandpa always saying to me, you make sure you keep behind that line. Boy, he was very keen that I didn't get kicked by one of the cows, but, um, yeah, it's, uh, easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time on a, on a livestock farm.
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Peter Green
So you are based in the north of the uk, but how often do you get down to the southwest?
Heather Wildman
Uh, I'm really, really lucky. I get down to Cornwall, Devon Cornwell at least once, if not twice a year, sometimes more.
But I'm trying to manage that a little bit more. But I'm always open to invitations, uh, wonderful rural communities down there, some great people and some great businesses. Um, so I was just down in March, I did a talk at Wade Bridge, at the Royal Showground, and then I did a, a family meeting, uh, in Como when I was down there as well.
So looking forward.
Peter Green
So your work with individual businesses all around the country, you know, inc. Including down in Devon and Cornwall and, and beyond?
Heather Wildman
Yeah, so, uh, although I'm based in Scotland, I national and I actually do a bit of external overseas work now as well. Um, this power of Zoom, I was quite skeptical to be honest at the beginning, but it really has opened up many, many doors and I've realized you can engage, see the body language and kind of pick up what's working, what isn't, when to push a bit harder, when to pull back a little bit.
But yeah, I'm privileged. I get paid to travel, uh, all over the uk and I've been in some amazing places. Silly Isles was one of the best ones. Uh, I was privileged to work for the Duke Dutchie there. It was great.
Peter Green
Oh, it's an amazing place. Scilly is, isn't it? Yeah, we, um, we've got some members out there, Kish Mitri have some members out there, but, um, I'm still, still trying to get the right time to, to get my wife out there.
You, you're constantly watching the weather forecast to try and make sure you hit it because you can get stranded over there in fog when it's, you really knock. Might as attractive as it might be, but I mean, you know, when the sun is shining, there are few better places in the uk. Oh,
Heather Wildman
I would agree. I would agree.
And fascinating business structures and everything as well, you know, and the flowers, it, it's, it's privilege. My work, I, I can't believe I get paid to do what I do.
Peter Green
Yeah, well, you're not, what do they say? You're not, you know, you're not having to work if you are loving what you're doing. Something like that.
I think I've paraphrased that badly. So I guess there's lots of differences around the UK and around the world with the different businesses that you see, but, Presumably resilience is something that all of them need to be thinking about. What does resilience mean to you?
Heather Wildman
Um, I guess resilience is a bit of a buzzword as well at the moment, isn't it?
And it's like anything, what does it real mean? And I, I suppose the true definition is it's the art of holding your shape and bouncing back. And for me it's, I'll say it's a bit like Teflon. You know that some people go through some. Awful tragedies have so much bad luck, but they're often the most happy content people because it's a bit of an outlook in life and other people.
It's all well me and I guess it's about being rational, being measured, reflective, um, keeping things in perspective and being well-informed. It's a bad day. It's not the end of the world. And keeping it all into perspective and being able to, to, to compartmentalize it and think, right, well, what can I control?
What can I impact and, and what can I change? And then how do I address it and move on? And, and it's having, you know, we, we talk about mindset today. Um, I know myself, depending on how tired I am, depending what else is going on in my world, depends on how. How calm I am when something happens or you can feel overwhelmed and, and I think a lot of that is having the resilience to recognize, just go to sleep.
You know, we always used to say to the kids when they were tired and fractured, you know, go and have a sleep at all. Feel better afterwards. I still say that to myself now. I think sometimes, you know, just go for a walk. Go and sit down. Just go and breathe. Separate yourself from the issue and I'll, I'll pick up the phone and speak to someone.
And clarity, nine times outta 10 comes through and you think it's not that big a deal. It's fine.
Peter Green
That's really interesting. My, um, my five-year-old daughter, bless her, obviously I love her to bits. One thing that she. Absolutely nails is that she can really understand when she's knackered and she'll say, I just want to go to bed.
And that's amazing because she has got that self-awareness at five to take herself off, which a lot of people don't have at 35 and 65 and 85. I'm really interested in what you say about perspective, cuz I think that's something which seems to come up again and again. Whenever we speak to people about resilience, it's about being able.
To take a step back and to understand what's going on around you and what's going on right in front of you there. And then at that moment, the people that you work with that do that really well, what, what is it that they're doing? How are they really best able to get that perspective?
Heather Wildman
So some of the best operators that I work with and, and these can be individuals, young farmers, it can be big corporate companies, they tend to have a, a strong and broad information platform coming in.
So they'll have specialists, researchers, scientists or uh, experts in their field from a diverse. Group at a diverse sector. So they're seeing it from different angles, different uh, directions, different paces and, and different levels of importance and things as well. And then using that as a, as a, then a base to then make informed decisions.
And, you know, how did your sector react to this? What was the impact when this happened? Um, how did you get over this? Uh, what was your learning from this? And then they'll bring that into their team and then, um, filter it down at the right level at the, to the right amount, to the, depending what the role and occupation of the people are around them.
So, um, for example, we're talking about family farm. You know, they'd maybe be going to discussion groups. They'd, um, be speaking to their accountant, their supplier, whoever they're, whether they're beef sheet, dairy or arable, whatever it might be. They'll be looking at their market, they'll be looking at the auctioneer, the land agents.
Um, they'll be speaking to the neighbors. They'll be, uh, reading articles and attending seminars and courses. So they've got a real huge funnel, if you like, filtering it all through. And then, you know, using, um, that to make decisions. And they don't always get the right decisions, cuz as, as we well know, there's some things that you.
You can't see and predict, but at least then they know in their mind that they've done as much as they can with all of the information they've had. Um, and, and that then really does seem to work very, very well.
Peter Green
That's always quite interesting. I find there's a difference between people who can live with making a decision that doesn't maybe pan out as they hoped, and people who perhaps don't.
Own that decision. And that's something that I struggle with, you know, actually owning my mistakes. How, how can we better do that? Particularly thinking about, you know, on the farm where a decision can have an impact three years down the line, you know, I'm wishing now that I put more, you know, Wagyu bulls on, on my, my heifers for my beef boxes, but, You know, that would've been two or three years ago that I should been making that decision.
You know? Oh,
Heather Wildman
we love Wagyu burgers Up p we've got Wagyu, uh, on our, we put, uh, Wagyu semen on our dairy, um, cows as well. So, uh, we do do a little bit of Wagyu. It is own in, um, that. Mistake or whatever it is. And what could I have done differently and what did we learn from it? And I don't like to stigmatize, uh, farming and everything cuz I love agriculture.
I've been involved in agriculture all of my life. It, it's through me like a sticker rock. But there's times I get really, really frustrated with it as well. I think we've got a very negative attitude. We blame, we don't take accountability. And this isn't all by any means. And I know your listeners here will all be well educated, so forgive me if they feel that this is patronizing.
But I do still see a lot of. Stigma and you know, it's the milk buyers, it's the supermarkets, it's the politicians. It's everybody's fault, but ourselves. It's actually a choice what business you are in. You know, you do not have a God-given right to be a farmer, and if it's not working, you are not given a God-given, right to make a profit.
You're not entitled to make profit, so therefore, everybody's business is changing. My business is, and if I, my client base changes, I have to change. And if I'm not as good as my competitors, I lose out. If I'm not adding value and being a value to my clients, they'll go to somewhere else. And you know, farming, we have to sort of think, well actually, what are we doing really, really well?
And we are doing a huge amount well, which we are not talking about, we are not shouting about. And then it's like, what can we change and what can we influence and, and what do we have to accept? And then either live with it or, or, or change our business and go around it. That's the thing.
Peter Green
And, and something you, you, you touched on a couple of times so far, actually.
Is this idea of things that we can control or influence and things that we can't. What's the art behind really understanding where something falls, you know, does, can we control it, can we not?
Heather Wildman
Since I set up in business, I'm a big believer in vision, communication, and collaboration. And, um, for me, again, all my clients, it's where are you?
Where do you want to be and how are you going to get there? And then how do we communicate it? Who do we communicate it to and what do we communicate? And then the collaboration is how do we make it happen? Have we got the right skills? Um, with the right people and the right seats, doing the right jobs, and if we haven't, how do we find them?
And, and then for me it's about, I, I'm a list person and I know some, uh, positivity people say lists are so negative cuz you never get to the end of them. And there's always something else. But I'll even put stuff on the list that I know I've done just a ticket off because it makes me feel better. But I, I love Liz.
And, and, and it's about that perspective thing. Again, it can get really negative in agriculture because there's always something to do. You know, you're never done. During Covid, I actually stopped putting the news on and stopped reading papers because it got so negative, and I'm a really upbeat, positive person.
But by the time you'd listened to the, the radio, the news, You know, there was the war, there was covid, there was death, there was the housing crisis, there was the financial crisis, uh, the cost of living the electric. And you think, Christ, why am I even getting outta bed? You know, I'm losing money before I've even done anything.
And I was starting to see this affecting some of my clients because they just saw the things they didn't do. And we can get really brought into this negative spin of farming, of agriculture. So just a simple notebook, I say to them, at the end of every day, write five things that have gone well. Five things that you've achieved.
It could be that you, you didn't fall out with the wife. It could be that, you know, you didn't shout at members that, you know, it could be, cause some people think, oh, for God's sake, Heather, there's nothing gone. Right. You know, we've just got ourselves in such a negative way. And then five things that have gone wrong and why they went wrong.
What you could have done better, or why you didn't achieve what you wanted to achieve today. Why was it, and then, Once Aang ring them a month later, it's amazing when they start thinking, oh my God, Heather, I'm achieving so much more than I thought I was because I'm now focusing on the positives rather than on the negatives, what we haven't done.
So then if you start putting that into your daily action plan of, right, what do we need to do this year? What is our business? What is our goals? What is our drivers? Big picture, be really bold and ambitious. And then I still use the good old fashioned swat, your strengths, your weaknesses, your threats and opportunities.
Um, so what are we really, really good at? What are we awesome at? Um, what are our threats and what are the opportunities? And generally you get cross compliance in all of them, but it grows and grows. And then when you look at your opportunities and your strengths and your weaknesses, you think, what can I influence?
And what can't I influence and what, and I, I love doing the what if scenarios. So what if this happened? What if it didn't rain? What if, um, we will lose that contract? What if we get tb? What if, you know, we don't get the land again, our tenancy isn't renewed. Uh, or our grass grazing rights or, um, whatever it might be.
And then think like, well, how will that affect us? But. I will then go back to the bigger, bigger goal of what is it all for? What are you working for? And you know, a lot of farmers, they go to the accountant and say, how much tax, what have I made? What's left at the end of it? Well, to me that's rubbish. That is no wavering a business.
And I was just speaking to my accountant this morning and, and I always start with, when I retire, what do I need to have? So I'm gonna be whatever age, how much am I gonna need? And then how much do I need to make every year? To make sure that I reach that and what do I need to do? And, um, my clients, are they adding value?
Are they getting me to that goal? Am I on point to be able to charge that price? Because you know, a lot of farmers say, well, price takers not price makers. Well, why? You know, that's a choice. Again, it's about looking at what you're good at and thinking how can I add value and forget what the neighbor's doing.
You know, too many people are boxed in their. Biggest mindset is what will the neighbors think? It's actually shove that and think, what do you want as a family? And as long as it's safe and legal, crack on and do it.
Peter Green
That's awesome. I mean, especially I, I love doing swats. I mean, that's my background as an accountant, I think probably coming through rather than my, my farming upbringing.
But, um, thinking about those different scenarios is, I think really valuable. A lot of what you said there, I could only imagine what the atmosphere is like when you go into a farm kitchen and you've got different members of the family there, and the mindset perhaps in farming can be quite challenging sometimes.
You know what, I guess let's, let's step back. Why do you think it's particularly important that as farmers we are thinking about mindset in the first place?
Heather Wildman
We are becoming a lot more aware of the emotional, um, and softer skill side of life and, and farming. And I think for many, many generations, some families have been very aware of that and have had a really natural, nurturing, open, warm, caring, inquiring mindset.
And then there's been others that have been maybe more aggressive and stubborn and blinkered and I'm right and it's my way or the highway. And I guess now that with, you know, for the. Pros and cons of all this social media, we're all more intuitive in learning. The world's a smaller, smaller place. People are talking.
People are off farm a lot more and they're seeing different ways of doing it. And I think I. Where it is really, really hard in any family business, not just farming, is when we are working with multi-generations. You know, we, we we're different beasts, we've got different drivers, different motivators, and uh, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.
And it can be very hard to walk in someone else's shoes when you know your feet are too big or too small. Why is it that we have to do it the same way? Um, so, and it, it is like someone talking Mandarin, I guess sometimes if we're not in the same mindset, if we're not on the same page and we're not going in the same direction, and you can see some families that can talk it through are able to put their point across, um, get people on board with their vision, their, their, their aims, their their direction that they're wanting to go at.
And then the other family members are right. Well, we need to go and see that. Talk me through it. Show me how that's gonna work, and that can work really well and you get others this. Just a permanent clash because there's just no common value that is challenging and that's why we see a lot of mental health issues coming in.
When our values are challenged. Were, um, were being pushed and pulled in areas that we don't. Agree with that. Don't sit with us. And, you know, some people are very quiet and, and gentle in their mannerisms, and, and other people can be quite strong and aggressive. Doesn't mean they're bullying or bad, it's just their style.
But it can damage people's confidences and, and make them feel not hurt. Sometimes Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts founded four Farmers by Farmers in 1903.
Peter Green
I mean, that takes a lot of resilience. You know, that's the theme of this series that we're, we're thinking about with these podcasts from Cornish Mutual.
To what extent do you think farming is an industry Is. You know, mentally fit, you know what, what, to what extent do you think we are resilient enough? And what, and what does that resilience mean to you?
Heather Wildman
Oh, again, it varies, doesn't it? You know, and sadly, we've had people far too much tick in their own lives, um, in and around us.
So we're clearly a failing. Uh, our farmers and our communities in that way. Um, and why is that? I don't know. There's a little bit about that pride and strength and we don't ask for help, but there's some wonderful organizations out there that are really doing a lot of work. But I think it's not just farming, it's actually the human population.
Anxiety, uh, isolation, fear of what's around the corner and everything now as well. Yeah. But we've also got, Working with the ground, working with nature, working with livestock. We have got so many skills and talents out there, and I think it's just breaking down why people are successful and what is it that makes a successful person.
I think there's a lot of people are very driven and that drive makes them put the farm in front of everything at the detriment and at the cost of anything else. It becomes like an. Diction. You know, we work harder, we work longer hours cuz we know getting staff is difficult. The cost of paying for staff, well I'll, I'll just do it myself because then, you know, I'm not having to pay anyone.
So we get tired, you know, everything becomes a more difficult and harder when we're tired and we break things. And because often many of our farming, um, families are self-employed, uh, just work with themselves. They don't like taking weekends off or holidays, um, because who's gonna look after the farm?
The staff and, and it becomes a perpetual burnout. And I think, you know, the businesses that I see really, really well is they tip weekends off. Not every weekend, but they do get weekends off. Um, when the quieter times are on, they will finish at four, five o'clock. You know, they'll have Sundays off and they will definitely try and get a holiday.
Peter Green
Wow.
That's. Great. Thank you. We've covered so much there already. And, um, it's been really good to be thinking about resilience, but just sort of moving on and, and, and thinking a little bit about change and dealing with change. I once attended one of your talks and one of your slides, uh, was titled, preparing for the Seven Ds Death.
Disability, disaster disease, divorce, disagreements, and debt. So have you always been a glass half full sort of person, Heather?
Heather Wildman
Yeah. Uh, yeah. That's a good old succession, isn't it? Whether, uh, the more certainty in life is we're all going to die, but some of us have the privilege of living before we die.
And, uh, and having fun. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, this putting everything off for tomorrow. Yeah. And you know, oh, we're gonna go on holiday once we've retired, we're gonna travel work when we've done this. We're gonna do this after. And it's always putting it off. And some people never get tomorrow. And um, and yeah, my friends always joke cause I say, I'm gonna take the hand break off now I'm gonna really start going for it.
And oh my God. Can you crank it up anymore Heather? I'm going, I don't know. I'd maybe give it a go though. Some people, you know, through accidents, through disease or whatever, they don't get to live their life. Someone said, you know, if you had to have someone else's troubles for a day, you'd soon be appreciative and want your own back.
You know, be careful what you wish for and actually stop and see what you've got. What is good? What is great? What do you enjoy? And if you are not enjoying doing it and you are not happy, why are you doing it? Yeah. Yeah. And that's when it does take that confidence and courage to say, I'm going to change.
This is not right. Yeah. And some of the people I see the happiest are the ones that have walked away from a family crisis or, um, a, a, an unhealthy marriage, an unhealthy relationship, or, you know, a, a poor partnership in a family business. And if you're not respected, you're, you're not enjoying it, you're not utilizing your skills cuz so many people are doing jobs.
That they would never have, have done. You know, they would rather, there was one guy, I spoke to him and he says, Heather, I want to be a pilot. And he was, he was on medication because he couldn't get on with his family. And that was his dream all the way through school. But his brother had died. Um, his sister didn't want the farm, and they were told it would be sold if they didn't come back.
And, you know, he, he wasn't happy and he thought, what a shame. What is she more for? This legacy Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts helping you make your farm safer with tailored health and safety services that safeguards you, your family, employees, and your business.
Peter Green
Going back to a point you made a little earlier as well about scenarios.
As I said, I love doing, um, scenario analysis. My dad was the king of, um, back of the envelope, uh, calculations. You know, he didn't like waste being a Cornish farmer, so there was always a pile of empty envelopes by the phone. And he would just sort of take one very carefully from the top of the pile if he was trying to work something through.
But it can be an obstacle. You know, people don't necessarily enjoy dealing with numbers. Is it as simple as just sort of outlining some real sort of high level, you know, estimates to, to, to see how a different enterprise or a different job might pan out?
Heather Wildman
My partner would be smiling if he could hear this now, because, um, detail shmi till is, is bit me.
I, I'm like Wing Wingy, Wildman, you know, if it feels right and it looks good enough, you know, and, and I feel I, I'll, I'll go for it. As some people it's the detail. The detail, the detail, and, and itll hold them back in the end because they never have everything to get going. So you need a little bit. Have a balance of both, but it's knowing your markets and doing some sensible budgeting.
You know, if you, if you're gonna be doing something, what if the interest rates went up? What if I lost that contract? What if, um, you know, I was ill, do I need insurance to cover things? Um, and stuff like that as well to go through. I'm probably getting more and more risk averse as I get older. I'm getting a little bit more set in my ways.
And again, I think there's a timeline. There's, you know, that's why I get really frustrated in a lot of, uh, agricultural industries. We hold a lot of young people back. Uh, we don't give them the check, but we don't give them the responsibility because if it goes wrong, the cost is so significant. But, you know, um, some of the best, um, speakers I've worked with and, um, and taught by, you know, some philanthropists, Tom Hunter.
So Tom Hunter is up here in Scotland. He says, don't come to me unless you've failed at least four times. And, and failure isn't failure. If you've learned from it and you move forward. Some of the best things grow out. Failure. I know some of the hardest, hardest times that I've had that I've been devastated.
I think the world has ended. And then, you know, you go through the grief curve, which is, you know, it's, it's a brilliant curve if you've seen that. And it's so, so true. And it's often when you're at the dark as the bottom. Some people never get out of there. They will, you know, they're like, they've got a cloak of war around them or wore me.
But most people say, God, from that, this happened and I was able to do this and, and, you know, it was difficult. It was hard, but. It's, it's made me a better person because of it. Yeah. So, you know, I don't want anyone to be gung ho. Oh, I'll listen to this podcast and Heather said I would just do it. Uh, well actually I do.
I am a great believer if you want to do it, just do it, but, you know, have a bit of risk management in there as well.
Peter Green
Absolutely. I really like that point about making a mistake. One of my first bosses, um, said, we don't mind you making a mistake, but learn from it and don't make the same mistake a second time.
And there's, there's a lot in that, isn't there? You know, don't, don't be afraid to make a mistake, but you've gotta be looking for the lesson.
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Peter Green
So that Princess Countryside Fund Fund for the future program that, um, you were presenting at when, when I first met you?
Um, I think it was last year. I say this with all due respect to you as one of the presenters, but some of the most valuable times in, in that course were the car journeys to and fro because you are talking to your peer group and they're farming on similar soils to you on similar operations, similar scales.
They know the characters that you are talking about. They deal with the same merchants and actually chucking ideas around in the car. You know, how are you getting on with herbal lays? I've really struggled to establish mine. What did you do to make them work in that field? I. They were, they were so valuable and it gave us that perspective away from the farm.
You know, it's another example of trying to get perspective time away from the farm. You know, make, make time, make space, um, that was really, really important.
Heather Wildman
You can have the best conversations in a car or on the phone because you haven't got that pressure of the eye contact. I. There's pros and cons, but there's, you know, I, I think, um, a really good discussion group is hugely powerful.
Really, really powerful as well. And, and you're right, if you are in a car with people that you respect and you can see they're good, um, you know, good at working with the crops or the livestock, whatever, you know, how brilliant to have that time.
Peter Green
Totally, totally. Um, you talk about discussion groups and that was something that I really did want to, to talk about.
So just dashing back to your nuffield, the title was Communication, you know, influencing and Motivating Change. But I had a, had a look at the, the YouTube clip of your video where, um, I think your husband came in for a bit of a roasting for his lack of use of, uh, the dishwasher. And, uh, there was a bit of, a bit of a niggle about the hinges on the dishwasher.
I think, if I remember correctly. But, but joking aside, go back to, to the Duffy thinking seriously about it. Um, for just for a moment, what were the real takeaway points and you know, that was done in 2012. What's really stuck with you since then? And maybe what is there that on reflection you might, you might have changed.
Heather Wildman
So it's funny, I'm actually just reading it now cause I'm doing a workshop on monitor farms. Tomorrow for a company. And I thought I better read my paper again. What did I say? 10 years ago? And there's a brilliant quote, uh, from a guy about discussion groups. A group without goals is a group that refuses to take responsibility for themselves.
Information itself does not make things happen. It is the people who make things happen. And I think discussion groups. Um, you've gotta have people in there that you respect and, um, and, and I don't mind if they're from mixed backgrounds or whatever, but it, it is this really good facilitator and you need to have some common goals about what you want to achieve in your time in the group.
What are we doing this all for? What's my business? And then for me, the best ones is when you go around each of the farms and they benchmark as well. So there's a lot more openness and sharing and um, so they do financial as well as physical benchmarking and that does take a lot of trust. But my God, if you've got that, you take everything to it.
Cause it's a lot more, you can get really into the nitty gritty. You can, every group, you can either, like, let's look at the, um, the grass costs. What does it cost us if we're grazing, reseed the pH, the, um, you know what tons of dry matter we're getting for. Field, um, and, and all that kind of thing. Or whether it be, you know, your dairy, what liters, even if it's housed, organic, whatever it might be, you can still learn from it and then you think, right, what do we want to achieve in the next year?
And they'll all be different. Some people, it'll be about selling pedigree cattle. Some people will be about liters, some people about being the best. Some people it might be, uh, her traits, whatever it is. And then think working as a group. And each time, just like you've said, when you go to that farm, you'll pick up something different.
Benchmarking is absolutely key. Uh, you need to know where you are and then you can benchmark it going forward. Set yourself goals. Learn from the best around you. Visit those farms as well as bringing speakers in. And then the next thing would be then, uh, benchmark to external organizations. So if I wasn't doing this, what else could we be doing?
What could be learning from other sectors, other industries? That we haven't utilized in agriculture and farming yet. Yeah. And um, and having set days and I would definitely have an independent facilitator to challenge to keep you on track cuz sometimes you can go down a rabbit hole but allowing you that fluid to, to go off piece for a wee while.
Cause sometimes they're the gems. But to recognize when it's. It's actually going nowhere and, and having a succession for those groups coming in as well. I think, um, you know, I like it if there's a criteria. You don't just take anybody and you know, you've gotta commit to do this, this, and this. And if you don't commit, I'm sorry, this group's not for you.
Um, there will be other ones out there, um, that might be more fitting for you. There's nothing to stop, you know, a couple of like-minded farmers. Doing it themselves. You know, you don't need an organization to fund it. And folks say, well, how do we pay this? But actually the, the value should be there. Yeah.
Um, and I set myself as a facilitator that I, um, I had to give everybody a minimum of a thousand pounds value for coming to that meeting. Now, some would question whether I always achieve that, but you know, if you've given a day off farm, you've given your time, the cost and everything else of what you could be doing.
But then a lot of farmers don't value their time accordingly.
Peter Green
That's a whole other podcast episode. That one we've, we have covered so much ground today. Heather, thank you so, so much for being so generous, uh, with your time and with, with your thoughts. Um, I could have asked another hour of follow up questions I think, but, um, time, time is, is getting away from us.
I've just got, um, a couple more questions to ask you if I may, please, and then, then we'll just wrap it up. The first one and probably the most important question you'll be asked today, um, the killer question when it comes to a cream tea. Is it Jam first or Queen first?
Heather Wildman
Oh God, I'm gonna get shot. I don't do cream. Um,
Peter Green
that's the same. I was not expecting that.
Heather Wildman
And I used to call myself the saviour of the Scott dairy industry and, uh, but no cream. Thank you. Uh, yeah, just jam.
Peter Green
Okay. Okay. I thought you were gonna take another angle and say, I prefer a cheese gone, but, oh, I love a cheese.
Gone. Yes. There you go. Okay. I think we just about saved that one.
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Peter Green
Just really, really quickly, what is it that you enjoy most about your job?
Heather Wildman
Oh, meeting people and making a positive difference. Yeah, I think, um, enabling and, uh, yeah, enabling change as well. That's definitely one thing, but seeing the people, the diversity, the broadness, and seeing their businesses, uh, I am so, so lucky.
Peter Green
Well, look, I'm really keen to try and distill each of the conversations we have in this series down to just two or three key points for our listeners. Um, I've really struggled to do that. I've got a page full of notes from, from chatting to you, Heather, but I think really what's, what's coming your way?
For me is, is taking that responsibility for yourself, so getting yourself in order, really trying to understand what, what your why is, you know, why are you doing this? Why do you want to be headed in the direction you are? Also then sort of thinking about understanding your own value, and that includes how you learn from your mistakes.
That's a, that's a really critical one that I think we, we touched on as well. And then I think the other side, sort of coming away from how you do business is almost how you are away from the business. So it's making that space, um, both for sort of that self-reflection, but also to try and get perspective, whether it's taking time off and away from the business or whether it's taking time to, to find a mentor or someone that you can look at and understand, um, how, how they do things.
Um, and that might be in a discussion group or you know, one-to-one. Is there any other nugget that you would share apart from that?
Heather Wildman
Just make time for you. For me, when I get overwhelmed by things, it's gone for a walk with the dogs, like trying to eat, well drink sensibly. I don't always manage that one.
And, and, and, and yeah. You know, just look after, get that exercise and tick time off from the work, work, work all the time. And, you know, tick time with your friends and your family because, uh, all work and no play makes Peter a very dull.
Peter Green
Boy. That's it. That's it. You've been speaking to my wife.
Heather Wildman
No, that's not true at all. She says, get some work done, Peter. Uh, no. Um, but it is, it, it, it is about getting that balance. And sometimes it's really hard depending where we are and now different stages, but to prioritize you because if you are not well and rested and looked after you, you'll never be your full potential anywhere.
Yeah.
Peter Green
Brilliant. Heather, thank you so much. Um, that's, that's been such, uh, an enlightening conversation. Um, remember the episodes of Farming Focus are released every fortnight on Tuesdays. Please do spread the word about the podcast. Tell your farming neighbors, tell your friends locally, talk about it in market.
And if you've taken one or two things like those nuggets that we've just talked about with Heather from the podcast, Do discuss it with other Southwest farmers. That's what we're trying to do with this podcast. We wanna get conversations started and we want to get people, uh, talking. Please contact us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.
Use the handle at Cornish Mutual. Let us know what you thought of the episode. And don't forget to subscribe. I'm sure Heather will be subscribing, um, just as soon as this episode is released. So join us in a fortnight's time when we'll be marking Farm Safety Week with a special episode. On a subject which often gets disregarded with an assumption that'll always happen to someone else, but we'll hear from someone for whom it didn't Take a look at the show notes and you'll get information.
On today's episode, we'll try and link a couple of things that Heather touched on there. You've been listening to Farming Focus, brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I've been Peter Green, and until next time, it's goodbye for me and everyone in the Cornish Mutual podcast team.
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