Peter is joined by Nuffield Scholar Chris Manley and Lincolnshire arable farmer Charles Anyan to discuss why looking after our physical and mental health is so important for a healthy business and healthy farmer.
In this episode host Peter Green speaks to Nuffield scholar Chris Manley (who started the #WalkWithMe campaign) and Linconshire arable farmer (and FCN ambassador) Charles Anyan to discuss physical and mental health.
In this second series of Farming Focus we're asking the question 'does my farm have a future?'.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
For our podcast disclaimer click here.
Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle
00:15 Peter Green introduces the episode.
00:42 On my farm in 60 seconds.
01:58 Peter introduces today's guests.
03:19 Chris Manley comes in.
05:38 Charles Anyan introduces himself and his story.
07:20 Charles has lost a considerable amount of weight.
08:04 Jingle
08:13 Why is being in a good headspace so important for running a business?
10:50 Be proactive. Are you ready for the shock of your life?
11:50 What can we do on the farm to move more?
13:50 What can you do to get started? Chris gives some tips? How are you feeling on a scale of 1-10?
17:38 Think about what you enjoy.
17:50 #Whosyourjulie?
21:05 Look out for those around you.
22:20 Make it easier for the listener.
24:45 We need to have some braver conversations around this.
25:43 We all need to talk more.
26:30 Need to break the stigma.
26:42 Showstoppers.
28:22 What 3 skills or attributes will farmers of the future require to be successful?
29:17 Peter rounds up.
30:41 First Aid Days notice.
Cornish Mutual Farming Insurance Experts.
Hello and welcome to episode three of Farming Focus, the podcast for Southwest farmers brought to you by Cornish Mutual. As hopefully you will know by now, I'm your host Peter Green, and our focus today is on fitness both mental and physical and why it's so important for both you and the future of your farm.
First though it's time for our new feature on my farm in 60 seconds. Start the clock.
This episode we're thinking about making sure we're heading in the right direction and to help me do this I make time in January to check that the overarching reason for For doing what I do, my vision of looking forward, if you like, is still valid and that the different parts of my business are heading in the right direction as well.
For me, it's easiest to do this away from my farm and while I try to live by Matthew Naylor's advice to get off your farm once a day, out of your parish once a week, out of your county once a month, and out of your country once a year, it is of course easier said than done. However, as someone who gets energy from other people's company, I find it almost as invigorating to spend time with non farming friends.
I can either take the opportunity to put the farm to the back of my mind, or more likely to answer questions about farming if people are interested. This often allows me to iterate my plans for the year ahead by discussing them with a friend who in turn can hold me to account, which helps spur me on to start and follow through on things.
So today we're talking about physical and mental well being and why a healthy farmer is so important for a healthy farm. We hear a lot about the difficult and often painful side of poor mental health. And if you're struggling with your mental fitness, as it can sometimes be referred to, please talk to somebody and seek help.
I Googled farmer support charity this morning, and there were links to some incredibly helpful organizations straight away, including the farming community network, who are there for you. But today we're going to talk about how to proactively look after your mental health, which will also have an impact on your physical health.
And I'm joined by two guests. Firstly, Nuffield scholar Chris Manley, who is based in Taunton and works for Muller for his day job. Chris started the hashtag walk with me campaign, which has received worldwide attention. I'm also joined by Lincolnshire farmer. And I think really we have to say Lincolnshire athlete, Charles onion, who turned to running to improve his physical health a few years ago.
And as a result became an ambassador for the farming community network. He's also been a judge on farmer's weeklies, Britain's fittest farmer competition. Chris, let's turn to you first. Welcome to the show. Hello, Peter. Yeah, absolute pleasure to be on the show. Um, and particularly coming from coming from the Southwest.
We're very much in the, in the heartland. That's for sure. This is it. Absolutely. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and why you're here talking to us today about the importance of looking after our mental fitness? Oh, absolutely. No, it's a, it's a pleasure to be here. And, um, I'm from a family farm in East Devon.
I've been brought up with dairy cows, beef and sheep and very much that kind of muddy brutes upbringing, um, and the young farmers, uh, sort of ethos. And I guess, um, for me, ever since I sort of got involved with young farmers, I realized that actually you can, um, you can grow and develop yourself through your network.
Um, so then I went on to. Harper Adams and studied agriculture and I guess from there in I was really curious about what goes on in the supply chain and I guess most of my career has been spent connecting sort of farmers and processes and supermarkets and sort of bringing people together to sort of deliver really good projects either for sort of animal welfare or, or sustainability.
But specifically, um, why we're here today. Um, so, um, I was fortunate enough to do a Nuffield Farming Scholarship, looking specifically at leadership, and I thought I was definitely going to go around and meet all these amazing leaders, various titles, which, you know, I have done, and there's lots to learn from those, but, um, My personal journey at the time took a bit of a, a downward detour, um, I sort of had a personal relationship that broke down that led me into quite a severe, uh, depression.
And as part of that recovery, I realized that actually, um, this sort of some key things that you can do sort of like a toolbox. Uh, so, so to speak. So, um, I got got into thinking about actually how can I improve my well being along the journey. And then in turn, in turn, um, I thought we're actually in farming.
This is a really, really important issue as well. So, um, I said upon the task of sort of trying to improve myself, but also help others. Fantastic. And thank you for being so honest with your answer there. I'm sure we'll hear more about your, your journey through the podcast. Charles, welcome. Thank you, Peter.
Uh, delighted to be here. I am an arable farmer, 750 acres, uh, keen environmentalist. The last few years have been bizarre. I've always been a sportsman, but particularly bad at sport. I played rugby all my life, prop forward, the slowest prop forward in the history of my local rugby club, used to, you know, enjoy it, but never be particularly good.
And then, COVID came along, and I was 17 stone. I used to swim a lot. It used to be my thing just to not put on any more weight because I was always a big guy and I thought when they shut the swimming pool in COVID, I'm going to have to do something really drastic. Otherwise, I'm going to end up 20 stone.
So I was challenged. By an absolute Goliath of the mental health world, Liz Hoggarth, Cumbria and Dari Sama. And she, you know, what a, what a woman to run five kilometers for the NHS. Uh, I didn't own any trainers. So because trainers were for bad people to a certain degree, I still believe that, uh, you're, you're in trainers yourself though, Charles.
Yeah, I've got about 20 pairs now. Takes one to know one. Absolutely. And I, I, I went into my orchard and walked a lot and jogged a little for about 45 minutes and thought that will do. And then I got back, bought a very cheap pear, and here we are, four years down the line. Not quite 20 stone. I think it's probably important just to say you're significantly less than 20 stone.
I think people need to know that, not least because we're a podcast and they won't be able to see that Charles, but you have, you have lost a considerable amount of weight. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I'm now last time I weighed myself. And obviously around Christmas time you don't weigh yourself quite as often, uh, for obvious reasons, I'm about eleven and a half stone.
Well, that's incredible. And, uh, yeah, bravo on, on that. What an achievement. But, um, and still playing prop forward or not so much? No, I have graduated to now be the slowest winger. In the history of market raising rugby club. Wow. There we are. I think I would get destroyed in the front row nowadays. Cornish Mutual.
Farming insurance experts. Working to protect the farming community since 1903. Um, Chris, why is being in a good headspace so important for running a business? Uh, it's, it's imperative, specifically from a business point of view and linking back to my sort of Nuffield findings, one aspect was all about knowing yourself in terms of being a good leader.
And if you think, you know, if anyone listening sort of thinks about how they feel on a day to day basis and how that might vary, ultimately, if your mental health is in a better place, the chances are you're going to be making better decisions and probably also you're going to be more consistent. And I think the way that you interact with people, I think is, is absolutely imperative.
So if you can take that time to think about how you as an individual, um, feel better or, um, can be in, in a headspace where, you know, how to interact with different members of your team. Let's face it. Farming is. is an amazing career to be in, but we're dealing with more and more externalities, volatility changes, and it builds back into, I think, being resilient and being able to deal with all those different things.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, two things just to pull out there. First of all, you speak about resilience. So I would heartily recommend that anyone who's not already listened to it, looks back and listens to the first series of farming focus, where we really focused. On resilience all through the series in, in lots of different facets.
Um, but the other thing I would recommend is that listeners, uh, look up. Chris's Nuffield presentation, which I was fortunate enough to be in the room, uh, to witness, and it was incredibly engaging and really interesting. So do, um, get on Google and look up that as well. It's well worth taking. And Peter, I was just going to mention that actually on, on that.
So I. I mean, some would say it was for dramatic effect at the time, but the question is really relevant is, are you ready for the shock of your life? So, for me, I, I, you know, everybody has their own individual example, but whether it's, you know, they're quite common, aren't they? Either to do with relationships or bereavements, um, and, and, uh, you know.
Business issues, and we think, you know, when things are great, actually, our mind is brilliant in sort of just carrying on. Things are good. And we don't often acknowledge why things are great, but then suddenly, I know where something can take you from left field and it's about managing that dip. So it's natural that you get the ups and downs, but what we're trying to avoid or minimize is that complete crash.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the thing that I really particularly like there is the, um, proactive nature of thinking about this and not having to react because we don't make our best decisions when we react. And you've touched on that when you say that it's really important to understand ourselves and how we're, we're going to think and, and, and act.
So yeah, that's, that's fascinating. So are you ready for the shock of your life? That's, That's quite a question to meditate on, and it's not necessarily a rhetorical one, is it? You know, can we actually answer that question if I may say it strikes me that you both started on your respective wellness journeys from quite different places.
And it strikes me that every individual can do work, which will either improve or keep them in a good place mentally and physically. Charles, what advice would you give listeners who perhaps don't think they could benefit or, or even make the time to, to take some actions that prioritize their own well being.
The beauty of my journey. is my fitness actually probably takes less time nowadays than it ever has done because you can do it from home. And there are certain things on the farm we can do just to move more. You know, do you need to constantly get in the four by four? And drive everywhere, drive over the field to pick up that trailer, you know, get a lift.
Can you not walk? There are plenty of ways you just can sit back, have a look at your day to day life and think, oh, I could probably move more there. I could probably be more physical there. We only get one shot on this planet, if you know what I mean. Yeah. You've got to, you've got to make time to, to have a think.
To be physically fit is strongly linked to mental fitness as well. And if, as Chris said earlier, if you are mentally fit, you can dedicate so much effort, energy, thought to the farm rather than being distracted the whole time. A friend of mine had a really difficult 2023 and, and he wasn't in a great place mentally or physically.
So, um, a group of his friends, um, who are spread all over the country started a WhatsApp group where we committed to record a video each day while we were doing some exercise or just after just to check in with him and encourage him. He's now in a better place, but the added benefit for me personally was the accountability that this introduced, uh, that made me get into a routine of getting some time every day.
Like you've talked about there, Charles, where I step away from work and consciously think about something else. That's something simple that had a benefit for a group of people. What are some other simple things that listeners can do to ensure that the mental health of of themselves but also their network is in a good place?
Peter, well done. I think that's marvellous that story what you're doing with your your friends on the whatsapp group and when you know you're part of a team or someone sort of supporting you there's a kind of element of commitment. I mean I know myself, like we're in January, obviously we've got quite dark mornings, dark evenings and the initiation to get started is really difficult because there's always maybe something more easier or something more familiar you can do.
Um, as far as few of the sort of tips that I would give, so something I hold quite dearly for myself is that knowing how you're feeling on a sort of scale of 1 to 10. So let's say typically a kind of normal range could be anywhere between, say, 6 and 8 or or something like that, which you can kind of manage.
Um, and then, you know, if you start to get a little bit lower into your sort of fives and fours, you know, you're feeling that that little bit worse, but actually, at each of those stages, having an idea of how you can respond to how you're feeling to help people. Sort of pick yourself up is is is key because I maintain that even when you're in your sort of worst possible place that it's almost like the sort of clouds coming across the sky.
So, when the clouds over over the sky, you think that they're never going to disappear, but the reality in a few hours, it can move on, but you can also help them move a little bit quicker. So, in particular, things like, uh, movement. So, if I'm in that typical range or like lower range, then I'll make sure that I'll be like, Oh, Actually, I need to go and do something.
So it might be go for a walk, uh, might be, you know, go to the gym. It might be a simple, if you're more of a people person, having that interaction, picking up the phone to someone. But actually that last point is. Is vital when you get into that lower range of that five and four, almost, I would say in peacetime, when you're feeling a little bit better, it's all about like cultivating those close friendships like you've done with with that WhatsApp group to know that actually, when you start to dip on that range, you've got one, maybe two people that you can pick up the phone to someone that is objective, empathetic to just someone that can can listen, and it might be the same conversation that you've had 20 times, but just through that pure ability to open up, have that valve, which most of us may struggle to find, I think that is a real, a real game changer.
Yeah, and by cultivating it, you've got people who understand the context and they, you might even talk to them about, well, I've, you know, there's a, there's a range of one to 10, et cetera, et cetera. What I also like taking a step back about what you said there is that in peacetime, I love that phrase. Um, you're thinking about when the sea gets a bit choppier, when things are a bit rougher, and that actually is often when we are most able to think sensibly and creatively.
Without interruption and just having a toolkit that we know we can pick up when we get to that four or five that you talk about is really helpful, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And, and the thing is, is it's finding your finding your thing. Uh, you know, so I only discovered the other day through, uh, buying a, Uh, Christmas gift, uh, for my God, God, son, that Lego has like developed out of all respect from when I was, I was a kid, you know, it's not just for children, adults as well.
So, you know, there's quite a few people that do things like Lego, uh, jigsaws, um, you know, arts and crafts, you know, a lot. I know a lot of farmers that are really good with like. You know, making from like welding, woodwork, find your thing that, that really sort of helps you sort of return to what feels like, you know, a more positive place.
Because often at the time when you feel you're, you're worst, you kind of forget those as a sort of a, a feeling of like, well, I can't do anything. We'll just remember those one or two things that you enjoy. And that might be the thing that just gets you back on the, uh, on the track. Some great tips there.
Thank you so much, Chris. That's brilliant. Following on from this, can you tell us about the hashtag Who's Your Julie, Charles? You know, basically it was, uh, a campaign which I mentioned to the Farming Community Network just after I became an ambassador in which they, they ran with it. Basically, I've always been very lucky mentally.
Although, undoubtedly, if this makes sense, my mental health is better now. But everybody on this planet always has an off day. And I remember a few years ago, two or three years ago, one Christmas day I was sitting on my sofa. It was in the evening, I'd come home from my parents, I was single, and, um, I started to suddenly feel really sad.
You know, really quite sad, and I thought, oh, right, and it being an unfamiliar feeling to me. And then at that precise point, A very good friend of mine, Julie, sent me a text saying, How are you? And I just sent her a message back saying that I wasn't feeling great. And the phone rang immediately. And we discussed it, you know, discussed why I wasn't feeling great.
You know, had a chat for 10 15 minutes. And I got off the phone and all my sadness lifted. And it was really quite a powerful moment. So I thought You know, I just mentioned the family community network if you know going on from what Chris is saying If when my mental health is good, I can have a think about who I can talk to, then when, you know, if I did have a drama and a dilemma, they would be there.
I wouldn't need to think about it, I could just go straight to her. And there is nothing, you know, I would never not discuss with her, you know, it's ideal. Because a lot of the things with poor mental health, they're really things that can derail people. They're really quite mundane and, you know, you would think rationally, but when, when you're in a bit of a spiral, they can become a major issue.
And just to have someone You know, it's really quite important. And that was the, my theory between the who's your Julie campaign, just to get someone revved up and, you know, it might not be, Julie's a very good friend of mine, but, um, it didn't necessarily have to be, you know, one of your best, two of my best friends that I go walking with.
They're the last people I would ever speak to. Yeah. Just find someone, someone you can trust, someone you can tell anything to. And that was the, who's your junior campaign and just to, you know, sort out when things are good and, you know, plan for the future. Yeah, I love this. So, so two things that are really sort of hitting home.
There's this theme developing about when we're in good mental fitness, that's the thing. That's the time to really look after yourself and cultivate relationships, but also we've touched there upon perspective, and it can be really hard to have that perspective when we're at extreme ends of that sort of mental fitness scale.
So if we can cultivate those relationships and and. Understand what normal looks like. It can help us to have that perspective when, when things are a bit more difficult, but it like, like you with a, with your WhatsApp group, just look out for everybody else as well. Because one of the biggest problems is, you know, in a lot of cases, we don't know who's got problem, but sometimes, sometimes we do, you know, with his very important message, you know, don't ask them how they are once, ask them twice to make them think Olly Harrison with his, uh, you know, answer as a percentage.
Now I'm, I'm a lot more blunt when it comes to that kind of thing. The people I know that have suffered, a friend of mine who I drink with, you know, he'll go outside for a cigarette and I will pop out and I'll just straight away ask him, how's your mental health? Just so I'm not saying, how are you? I'm asking directly, how is your mental health?
They don't get a chance. not to reply, if you know what I mean. They've got to reply and friends of mine who are in, uh, not necessarily a poor mental place, but in a bit of a predicament, I will send them a text saying mental health check and the notoriously bad one who will reply will always reply and they'll always give me an honest answer.
So that's what I do. Yeah, Peter just to just to build build on that is is actually it's an interesting concept for Uh the listener so I always talk about making it Easier for the listener because it can feel a bit pressured and that you have to be like a professional and know exactly what that Person needs when reality the reality is actually just being there to listen Um can can be enough but actually to build on charles's point like Different people need different things at different times.
And, you know, maybe, you know, depending on the context of the conversation, it's almost saying, would you like me to listen or would you like me to provide you with a solution or would you like to provide me with it? Would you like me to provide you with a distraction? Those are often the three bits and it will vary depending on the individual and also how that person is feeling.
Would you say there's still a stigma about well being and mental health in our agricultural community? It feels like we're a bit better at talking about it now. Yeah, I, I, I agree. It's, uh, it's got, it's got better. You know, I mean, there's, there's, I mean, the fact that we're talking about this now here on a podcast, you know, quite openly, is real, real progress.
And yeah, you know, I think there's more of this kind of checking in going on, but I still think there is a stigma, uh, about it. And I think actually one point I was thinking about in advance of, uh, our conversation was, Like, I think the challenge with mental health is you, you kind of make a logical assumption that it's like, like a physical thing as well.
You know, sometimes when people have a physical injury, you're like, well, it's bad at the beginning. Once it's repaired, it's better. You move on, but often it can, you can think you're on a, you're like, oh, I'm a lot better now, which like, like, you know, I can say that about me, but actually from time to time, I, I dip down again.
And so sometimes the conversation. It is also difficult when it first happens, but it's also just as difficult when you want to re engage when everybody thinks that you've got better. And also, quite naturally, people would probably think, well, what does it mean if I open up about this? How does then that, Define me, you know, as far as my actual capability and from a day to day point of view, and I think we need to have some, some braver conversations around this.
And I think particularly for employers, um, on the basis that, that actually, if you give someone the support at the right time, they can be more quickly back up to where you need them to be. And often when you get in a really difficult place, it's not forever. It's that moment and it's about getting the right support and taking the right action, um, at the time.
And I think that's how we need to look at it is if we can really address something in the short term, you can have some real benefits in the long term. Yeah, absolutely. And just thinking back to my friend and our WhatsApp group, I think my group of friends all being really honest and saying, actually, we, we have some really tough times and tough days as well.
It normalizes that. That mental fitness can dip in all of us. It's not just something which affects a few people. We all have a mental state of health or state of fitness that we think about. But the really important thing about Chris talking about his problems and there's some other, you know, quite high profile people, Will Evans, he's always been very open about his.
Uh, Joe Stanley touched on it last year. You know, it's great these guys are talking because it will help. There's plenty of people who aren't talking. Yeah. And hopefully it will get them talking as well, if you know what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. And normalizes the conversation. Because far too many times, whenever you, whenever you hear someone that's sadly taken their own life, a common theme is, Oh, I wasn't expecting that.
They were the last person you expected and um, we are getting better about talking about mental health I'm breaking the stigma, but it's still, it's still very much there. And it's just the case with, with, you know, we as an industry, I've got to keep chipping away at it. Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts.
It's now time for my showstoppers. And today, I think this boils down to three questions that it's worth reflecting on. Number one, Why the focus? Well, we work in a solitary industry with a record of poor mental health and our frame of reference is changing and arguably getting more difficult. Now, more than ever, we need mentally fit teams on our farms.
Number two, what if I feel fine, that's great as we've heard, but it doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement and speaking from personal experience, I find that the time when it's easiest to make changes to my operation or my personal routine, when I'm feeling most mentally resilient and the time that I feel most in need of a routine is when I'm feeling most Most mentally spent.
There's never a better time than now to make a start. And I think it's important to reflect on that question from Chris. Are you ready for the shock of your life? Number three, how do I start? Well, devoted listeners probably won't be surprised to hear me say that it begins with a plan. Plan some time into your day every day for the next week for whatever activity you think will help you most.
Find your thing. As we've heard today, it might be a walk with a friend or a walk away from everyone else. It could be a run. It could be a phone call to your Julie to coin Charles's phrase. It might be playing with Lego as Chris touched on or some meditation, whatever it is, book the time in and tell someone that will hold you to account so that you don't have to think about it.
And you can just start. I'm now going to ask the final question that we're asking everybody, this series in three words, what three skills or attributes will farmers of the future require to be successful? Chris, could you go first? So, so I'm going to go for something that they've always, I think always farmers have needed, but I think even more so, I think they need to care.
I think build trusting relationships and I think they need to be able to, um, uh, adapt or adapt and make decisions. Yeah, yeah, certainly that adaptability and flexibility, the theme that we're encountering through this series. That's brilliant. Thank you. And Charles, uh, three skills or attributes for farmers of the future, empathy, physicality.
And a strong work ethic. That's it for today's episode. A big thank you to my guests, Chris Manley and Charles Anyan. It's been such a privilege and a pleasure to talk to you both. For those of you who want to hear more of my conversation with Chris and Charles, make sure you download next week's bonus episode, which is available from Tuesday.
In that I'll be hearing from Chris about his hashtag walk with me campaign and about his involvement with farmer's weeklies. Britain's fittest farmer competition. We'll then be back the following Tuesday with another full episode in which we'll be talking about diversification. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show and give us a rating and a review.
It's the best way for people to hear about us. Check out the show notes for more information on today's episode, including the link to our podcast disclaimer. If you have any feedback or ideas for questions you'd like us to put to guests, you can send us an email to podcast at Cornish mutual. co. uk or find us on X or Twitter.
Instagram or Facebook using the handle at Cornish Mutual. You've been listening to Farming Focus brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I've been Peter Green and until next time it's goodbye from me and everyone in the Cornish Mutual podcast team. Cornish Mutual, farming insurance experts.
Cornish Mutual is hosting several first aid days. These one day events are for a level 3 first aid award and will help attendees learn essential skills for responding to accidents and emergencies on farms. Completing the course will grant first aid certification for three years and with limited space available head to the Cornish Mutual website for all the info and to secure your spot.