To mark Farm Safety Week 2023 host Peter Green is joined by Paul Mahon and Nick Lay from Cornish Mutual to discuss safety on farms in the south west. Devon dairy farmer Fred Collins also tells Peter about his on farm accident last year.
Farm Safety Week this year is 17th-21st July 2023. In this episode we discuss farm safety in the south west, reviewed by two members of the Cornish Mutual team - Paul Mahon, who is Head of Technical Development, and Nick Lay who is a Chartered Legal Executive and Claims Technician.
Devon based dairy farmer Fred Collins is also on the show. In February last year Fred was changing a tractor tyre when the jack failed and his arm was trapped and crushed for a considerable amount of time. Surgery took 8 ½ hours to insert a metal plate and 32 screws to his arm. Severe nerve damage left him without any feeling in his hand. His story is certainly one of resilience, both personally and in terms of his business.
Throughout this series we are focusing on the topic of resilience.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
For our podcast disclaimer click here.
Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle.
00:06 Intro music.
00:15 Peter Green introduces the series.
01:57 Nick Lay recalls his earliest rural/farming memory.
02:45 Paul Mahon recalls his earliest rural/farming memories (including Farmer Fish!)
03:45 Paul gives some information about farm safety in the south west.
04:50 Agriculture employs 1% of the working population in Great Britain but suffers from nearly 20% of accidents.
05:29 The situation from Cornish Mutual - relayed by Nick.
06:39 Why is it so important that Farm Safety Week exists?
07:07 Nick talks about farm accidents and how they make him feel.
07:57 Fred Collins section.
08:46 Fred talks about his accident in February 2022.
11:52 What makes people and farmers in particular take short cuts? Being busy and the challenge of this. The need to slow down.
14:50 Fred's main learning points since the accident.
15:36 Everything was in place already.
16:33 Back to Nick and Paul.
16:44 Nick shares some of the common farm accidents.
18:22 What does resilience mean for Paul?
19:00 What is resilience for Nick? How does it link to safety?
19:54 Paul talks about action on farm.
21:10 Not enough hours in the day - how can people be encouraged to slow down?
22:35 Paul explains about action plans and highlighting the things that are the most important.
23:13 Peter rounds up.
24:20 Cream tea questions...
25:34 Peter rounds up.
Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts.
Peter Green
Hello and welcome to episode three of this first series of Farming Focus, the new podcast brought to you by Cornish Mutual to kickstart conversations amongst Southwest farmers. I'm your host, Peter Green, and today on the show to Mark. Farm Safety Week, we're talking about the topic that we sometimes don't address properly until something makes us think about it more clearly.
With 1,001 things to do on farm, sometimes corners are cut, and this can result in potentially life-changing injuries depending on the accident. Later in the podcast, we'll be joined by Devon based dairy farmer Fred Collins. In February, 2022, Fred was changing a tractor tire when the jack failed and his arm was trapped and crushed for quite an amount of time.
He underwent eight and a half hours of surgery to insert a metal plate and 32 screws in his arm. Severe nerve damage has left him without any feelings in his hand. His story is certainly one of resilience, both personally and in terms of his business. Firstly, I'm joined by two members of the Cornish Mutual team, Paul Mann, who's insurance director and claims technician.
Nick Lay. Hi there, both of you. Thanks very much for coming on the show as well as hearing about Fred, um, from about his accident and recovery as well as what he's learnt. We're gonna look at some of the ways that we can improve health and safety on farm and, and how this makes your farm and the people working on it more resilient for the future.
I'll start though by asking each of you the same question that we put to all of our guests. Can you share with us one of your earliest rural memories? Nick, maybe you could go first.
Nick Lay
Yep, no problem. I grew up in Cornwall, but I didn't grow up on a farm, but my first rural memory does relate to a farm as I had a friend who.
Lived on a farm with his family, and I've got to admit that most of the memories were as little boys getting up to no good. And I think my most vivid memory from that time is falling off a hay bale and just landing flat on my back, knocking the window out of myself. And I think that instilled a, a healthy respect for the farm environment after that.And I've been a bit more cautious since.
Peter Green
I'm sure. I'm sure. I think, yeah. Most children that grew up in the countryside and certainly those with an access to a farm, were at some point or another building castles out of hay in straw, small bales. I know we did a bit of that. And Paul, how about you? One of, one of your first memories of the countryside.
Paul Mahon
When I was six, um, years old, which was in 1976, so the, the very hot summer we moved to a little village between Brixham and Paignton, surrounded by farmland similar to Nick. Really, I remember it being very hot and being in places I probably shouldn't have been and being chased by the farmer who was called farmer fish.
Right? And, uh, I remember being very scared of farmer fish. Then my, my, I suppose my first. Work related memory along these lines was when I started at Cornish Mutual, which was about 12 years ago. And pretty, pretty much in my first week, I went out with one of our field force, uh, called Jeff Kincaid, who met many farmers in Cornwall, will know, worked for Cornish Mutual for over 40 years, so it was zooming around the countryside, going out with Jeff meet, meeting our farming members.
I remember Jeff letting himself into the kitchen on, on his own, putting the kettle on before the farmer had had a chance to come back from the field. And it was, it was a very different environment, one I wasn't used to, but I very quickly, uh, grew to love.
Peter Green
Yeah. And speaks of the trust that members have for Cornish Mutual.
Yeah. That's a great one. So moving on to our main theme, Paul, perhaps you could give us some context of the situation across the Southwest with respect to accidents. How do we fare when it comes to farm safety in our region?
Paul Mahon
Well, every year the health and safety executive produce figures looking at.
Fatalities in agriculture, and that's across the whole of Great Britain. But then focusing on the regional areas, the latest set of figures we've got, go back to April 21 to March 22, and there were 25 fatalities across Great Britain and about a quarter of those. So six were in the Southwest. So you can see the Southwest is responsible for quite a few, and going, going back another year, it's a, it's a similar story.
So eight outta 41. Those figures are coming down there. There's a sort of general downward trend o o over the decades, but obviously still, still far too high.
Peter Green
Yeah. And also, I mean, I guess the, the other thing to bear in mind, thinking of the, the broader context before you zoom in like that, farming together with fishing and forestry, it is one of, if not the most dangerous industry in terms of fatalities, isn't it?
In the uk?
Paul Mahon
Absolutely. So, so agriculture employs about 1% of the working population in, in, in Great Britain, but it's, but it accounts for something like, or getting on for 20% of all workplace injuries. And then when, when you look at the, the number of fatalities per a hundred thousand employees, so you can sort of benchmark across all industries, agriculture is 21 times higher than the all industry rate.
It's the riskiest, much riskier than construction now.
Peter Green
Yeah. And I always think one of the things with agriculture as well is that, that you have so much loan working, you know, you're not necessarily working in larger teams. You know, you can be on your own when, when these accidents happen, as we'll hear later with Fred.
Nick, we've heard some of the numbers there from Paul about the industry more generally and looking regionally. Could you give us a bit of an insight on whether those numbers are born out in your experience with Cornish Mutual?
Nick Lay
Well, the simple answer is yes, they are. And as a claims handler, unfortunately, myself and my colleagues w we hear when things go wrong on a farm.
You know, regularly we hear about accidents on farms where employees or visitors to the farm have been injured, and those injuries can range from. Something relatively minor lacerations, bruises right up to catastrophic injuries, severe spinal cord injuries, brain injuries, life-changing injuries.
Thankfully, we don't see many deaths as an insurer, but certainly they do happen and we'll do what we can to assist. Quite typically these incidents will involve some form of investigation by the H S C. The
Peter Green
HSC being the Health and safety executive,
Nick Lay
health and Safety executive, sorry. We help our members manage that aspect of the incident as well.
But yeah, I mean, it's an issue that's not going away in agriculture and certainly the HSC are, are, are very focused on it at the moment.
Peter Green
Paul, why is it so important that the Farm Safety Week exists?
Paul Mahon
Even though we are on a downward trend, the numbers are still far too high. And so Farm Safety Week and other si similar sorts of initiatives.
If they help keep the focus on improving health and safety and if it helps sort of share ideas, then they can only be a good thing.
Peter Green
I think we're gonna hear a, a really striking story from Fred in, in just a few moments. You've heard stories like this before. Nick, how do they make you feel?
Nick Lay
It's heartbreaking, really, because they have such wide raging consequences for that individual mentioned life-changing injuries earlier.
I mean, just dealing with the pain and the suffering and the ongoing loss of amenity that that injury can have if it's a permanent injury personally is distressing for the member. Has a massive impact on the business. Th there's only so much help available when those incidents happen. It's difficult.
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Peter Green
We're now going to hear from Devin Farmer Fred Collins, who in February, 2022 had a life-changing accident. Fred, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.
You're farming just outside Honiton. Could you tell us a little bit about your farm, first of all, so listeners can understand a little bit more about the business?
Fred Collins
Quite an old fashioned farm. I've got, I milk about 45 cows in the winter and sort of about 60, 70 in the summer, about 130, 140 head of cattle, cattle.
I rear everything I put to dairy, to dairy short, or I then rear the young stock on, and then as they calve down the overflow heifers I have in the or am I usually sell at market. And that helps top the milk price up because, um, there's no money in small scale farming like I am, try to do as much as the work TrackWise and everything else.
I do it all myself. I don't have a contractor in just to cut costs down. The only only way I can really survive is to try and do as much as I can myself.
Peter Green
Can you take us back to February the first last year when you had your accident and what happened?
Fred Collins
Like I said, I do everything myself. And that morning everything went wrong.
I had a puncher, I ripped the valve off. I was scraping up with quite a big tratler, which I shouldn't have run on the yard scrapper, and I ripped the valve off the inner tube. So I was trying to repair that and um, I was rushing around because time was short. I jacked the tractor up on the pickup hitch and because I was in a rush, you cut corners.
I didn't use an axle stand and um, what I didn't know until a few weeks, well, few months I suppose, probably. Earlier on the end of last summer, I had a puncher and I was using a jack that the jack was leaking. Um, but anyway, I jacked it up. I'd wobbled the tractor around, um, trying to break the bead. And like most farmers with loaded tractors, you put ballast in the back wheels.
Um, so I drained out all the water. You know, there was, there was a lot of movement there and the tractor never slipped. Then it actually slipped off the jack when my arm was underneath the wheel. When I was putting a new inner tube in, I was trying to feed the valve. Up through and then all of a sudden I just heard a thud and just all my ear pain and all I could see were two bones sticking out and they were going up through the wheel rim and I couldn't see the rest of my hand.
And I was shouting in pain. And luckily, um, me mum's chap, he was coming to help me put some cladding up on the farm that afternoon, he turned up and he grabbed the other loader tractor and lifted it off and got me out. But I suppose I was stuck there for about 10 minutes, something like that. Wow. And um, I was just shouting to him, you know, you need to get it off now because, I had all this excruciating pain and then all of a sudden the pain just went away.
And I, I suppose it was adrenaline and I just felt like I was gonna faint. And I thought, you know, don't get me out. It'll be a quick, yeah, that'll be it. Jumped in his car cause he still had the engine running his car door open. And I jumped in his car and I said, get me down the hole at the minor injuries.
I walked in, nailed me fingernails down by me, elbow these bones sticking out. And um, the receptionist, she took one look at me and she fell on the floor. She fainted. So I had to go knock on the triage unit, and then I had three nurses come out and two of 'em had to hold my shoulder in place whilst the other one pulled my arm back out and around because I'd lost the blood flow to my hand.
When I got into exit hospital and I went into surgery, I was only in there for half an hour and they took me straight into surgery. They said like I, I was sort of five to 10 minutes away from losing my hand. Wow. Basically, because there was no blood supply there. And then I was out of action then, and this was February the second it happened, and I was out of action till about the middle of June.
They said I could come back to the farm and sort of do light duties. I track the work and things. I had six plates and 37 screws.
Peter Green
So, wow. We'll, we'll unpack that bit by bit, but you've, you've painted quite a picture there and, uh, I'm sure that our listeners can probably visualize, you know, the situation.
If, if not, what actually happened to you? You, you talked there right at the beginning about sort of, you know, everything being quite busy and taking shortcuts. What do you think it is that, that makes people, and, and I guess farmers in particular take shortcuts? Is it just that busyness.
Fred Collins
Yeah. Yeah. When you've got a lot on in a day and you haven't got much time to do it, and I mean, I got, I got away from the young family at home and the last thing I wanna be is be here at 10 o'clock at night.
Yeah. You know, I wanna be home at sort of seven and, and when you have things go wrong during the day, And you haven't got the finances there. Most people ring a tire fitter and have a tire fitter out and they, they'd deal with it and that would be it. But because I'm trying to save as much money as I can, like I said, I try to do everything myself.
Peter Green
What sort of patient are you? What sort of patient did you think you would be?
Fred Collins
Uh, my wife hated it after about three days I think. I don't live. I don't live on farm. My father lives on farm. Well, he's 70. What's he now? 74? Yeah. I don't live on farm. I'm at home and two days at home and yeah. I can't sit there.
Peter Green
We joke. But actually I wanted to ask you about the mental impact.
Fred Collins
Messed me right up. I couldn't, well, he was waking up three weeks afterwards, I suppose, at night. Still thinking about it. It was about a month ago. What was I doing then? I don't know. I was using a hammer for something and I was using my right, my right hand, which I hadn't really used for anything, for vibration or anything.
I just lump hammer. I, I think I was beating a piece of steel or something.
Peter Green
So just to be clear, the right hand is the one that you injured?
Fred Collins
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I was beating this piece of steel and that night I woke up at one o'clock in the morning. I couldn't go back to sleep till four, and then I was up again at five and that's what, that was the exact pain I had.
When I came outta hospital, it was almost like phantom pains, but I spoke to hand therapy because I, I had to for about three or four days afterwards, and they said it was because I haven't used that arm in that sort of physical situation yet, to an extent that it's then triggering off nerves and things, cuz I, I've still got no feeling in my little finger, the ulnar nerves, just, that's like having my hand in a load of stinging that basically if I, if I rub my little finger, it just feels like stinging that.
Peter Green
Thinking of the business, how did the business have to change in the immediate aftermath of the event?
Fred Collins
Yeah. Yeah. Well it was my cousin, actually it was the morning after I had the accident. He rang me up and he said, have I got anyone to feed the cattle? Cuz he thought that dad, you know, dad would be milking and whatnot.
He came in and then he sort of just took over and he worked for an agency. We then, you know, took him on through his agency. Yeah. It was, it was quite a lot of money. Yeah. But luckily I'd had, I've never borrowed any money and I had a lot of money saved up. I put up a new, um, a hay bar and then the plan was to put in a new parlor and a covered yard at the same time.
Last summer, but the money that I had saved up for that, I ended up just putting up the one hay barn and then scrapping the parlor and the covered yard and that, you know, helped to pay for the agency.
Peter Green
And what would you say have been your main learning points since the accident? Are there any things that you've done on the farm since?
Fred Collins
Avoid a lot.
I slow down a lot. I mean, I used to flap before. I used to rush around and flap. Occasionally I get a bit like that, but no. Yeah. I, I've sort of slowed right down and, and same everything. I'm thinking twice now. Yeah. Not just jacking the tractor up, but all of it. I'm not as risky at doing stuff as what I would've been before, I suppose, because you look at the, once you've been through something like that, it's, it soon changes things.
Peter Green
Yeah. I'm sure. So it's taking that extra moment to sort of look at what you might do step, step back, look, look at it and think about it and then go again rather than just go in. All full guns blazing Hammer and Tong. And anything else around farm, anything else you've put in place to avoid accidents happening in future, apart from the way you approach tasks?
Fred Collins
Not really, cuz I already had it here. That was the annoying thing you see. I already had these axle stands and, and usually I'd use them. Yeah. It was just, Because I was rushing that day. I know. I didn't bloody use them and I, I should have done, the worst thing is they were within meters away from where I was working.
Peter Green
Oh. That will I'm sure, resonate with lots of people. There'll be jobs that we do and we try to do them the quick way, but actually we can do them sort of with belt and braces. We've got the kit there to do it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for giving us so much of your time and being so honest with your experience, Fred.
It's, it's no problem. It's usually valuable and, um, I'm sure it will really strike a call with, with lots of our, our farmers down here in the southwest. So thank you very much and, and all the best.
Fred Collins
No problem. Thank you.
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Peter Green
That was Devon Dairy Farmer, Fred Collins telling us about the accident he had just at the beginning of last year.
I found some parts of that quite shocking. Nick, can you share just some of the other types of farm accidents that that you've seen in your role with us?
Nick Lay
Yeah. So there's some accident types or categories that I'd say unfortunately are fairly typical to farming. I think the HSC stat tell us that the most people, um, out of all the, those are killed on the farm are killed by, um, being struck by moving vehicles.
ATVs in particular, have been a source of some really serious injuries and deaths away from that. Falls from height is something that we see a lot. Typically, fragile roofs seems to be a, a real issue, fairly common knowledge that they're dangerous, but people, for reasons that we all know will go up on them and, and take the risk.
And we've seen some really nasty. Brain injuries as a result of a falls through from height. We also see people airlifted outta fields who have been trampled by cattle. So it's not only farming employees and the farmer themselves, but as visitors to that farm that can also be injured. And those in incidents particularly draw interest from the hsc.
So we see lots of cattle trampling incidents, ramblers on public rights of way generally with a dog. 80% of those incidents occur with a dog. And then I suppose the other main category is injury, reducing pieces of equipment and, you know, how many pieces of equipment are are there on the farm. There's absolutely loads, and we'll see injuries from, you know, various different types of pieces of equipment.
Peter Green
Yeah, we've, we've heard that there's lots of different ways that accidents can happen on a farm. For you, how does farm safety link with resilience and, and what does resilience mean to you? Paul, perhaps you could start,
Paul Mahon
I suppose resilience. To me, I think, I think it's the, it's the ability to deal with change, the ability to sort of cope and to bounce back perhaps to handle setbacks.
One. One of the ways, certainly in relation to health and safety is to really put some plans in place because I, I think just having the, the plan, which, which would hopefully enable farmers to take a more proactive approach rather than reactive, I think that leads to more control and that can then lead to sort of greater peace of mind, which can only help resilience.
Peter Green
Yeah. Yeah. And Nick, how about you? How do you see resilience linking to the things we're talking about today?
Nick Lay
I dunno how you measure resilience, but if you were able to, the farmers at the general population are probably some of the most resilient people out there just for the nature of their business.
How does it link to safety? I think that those individuals are the linchpins of the business and without them being physically and emotionally resilient than other aspects of the business are bound to suffer. So it's about. Looking after yourself and those important people around you. And then being able to spend the time and energy focusing on the other parts of the farm.
Peter Green
So we talked there at a reasonable length about what can happen after an accident and the impact of it. Paul, you touched on it there, about having a plan, um, before an accident. That's quite important, isn't it? You know, you talked there about being proactive, you know, how might that look and feel day to day to somebody who's listening to this podcast?
What, what could they do practically?
Paul Mahon
It all depends what sort of farm that we're talking about and the risks that are faced, but I think sometimes it's just a bit daunting to make a start. Now you can hear phrases like risk assessments and it all sounds very sort of formal, but I don't think it has to be.
I think there's some very simple things that. Can be done quickly and cheaply that can start making a difference. We recognize that sort of farmers engaging with their neighbors and other farmers and sharing ideas works really well. So we've started facilitating some farm walks and health and safety events so that farmers can just sort of share tips and tricks.
It can be simple things like putting a sticker on your fridge to remind you to do a certain thing or a sticker when you get into your, into your vehicle to, you know, undertake safe stopping. Or, or once you've done the sort of simple thing, then I think you are looking at starting to look at more detailed documentation and just sort of stepping back and really undertaking those risk assessments.
Peter Green
Yeah, that's really interesting starting that, you know, when people are just beginning their career in agriculture, that's a really important thing to do. Could you start those good habits, don't you Nick? You talked there about it falls from height, uh, and things like that and that made me think, you know, you can just rush things, can't you?
You can just chuck a ladder up against the building cuz you need to go and. Check something, a gutter or a roof or whatever it might be. Most, if not all of our listeners will be familiar with that feeling of there just not being enough hours in the day. Farms are very, very busy places and you know, there's, there's always jobs that need to be done.
How do you think people can be encouraged to slow down and make sure they undertake each task safely and to just stop and consider it beforehand as we've just talked about?
Nick Lay
It's difficult, isn't it? Cuz we can't conjure up any more hours in the day. I think when we're talking about, and again, I don't wanna focus too heavily on risk assessments, but I think we're all making assessments all the time and farmers are thinking about making assessments about how long something's going to take or what the result of a certain task will be.
And if we could bring. The safety aspect of that, the forefront of those assessments that they're making all the time. I think it's gonna be better off, and that's why Safety Week and initiatives like it are so good to bring awareness to that safety assessment and, and making it a priority because you might save yourself a bit of time, but if it goes wrong, then you, you know, we've talked about the consequences they're not worth thinking about.
So I would just say, try and make it a priority.
Peter Green
Yeah, and it can even be as simple as, you know, while you're having your cup of tea in the morning, just thinking, right, what have I got on today? Oh, I need to check that roof. I need to feed those. You know, okay, how am I gonna do that? What, what does that entail?
What, what's the, what's the riskiest part of that? That process?
Nick Lay
Yeah. And making it a habit.
Paul Mahon
Just getting into the habit of it. I think also when we go out to see farms and, and help with their health and safety, we put action pans in place. We try and just highlight that the things that, that are the most important and totally recognize that farmers aren't, aren't going to get.
To all the things on the action plan straight away. But if, if it's clear what the main priority is or the top three and we make sure that they're done, then that can start making a difference. You've made a start then, haven't you?
Peter Green
Absolutely. Yeah. I had a manager and he always said it's much more powerful to have a to-do list with three things on it than 20 things on it.
And I think there's a lot in that Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts doing what is right for you every day. Well, that's almost all we've got time for today. But before we finish the episode, I like to try and highlight three the key points that our listeners might take away from our discussion.
It appears to me that first of all, we need to have a plan. You know, Paul talked about being proactive. It gives us that feeling of control and, and you can always revisit it. You don't have to. Stick with it rigidly. It might be just planning your day, as we said, over a cup of tea. It might be just planning machinery servicing, or just looking at the way you do different things on farm.
I think secondly, just slowing down. It's so easy just to get caught up in trying to tick off tasks. Um, we all know what that feels like, but actually there's a lot of power in just pausing. Before we stop to do a task and just thinking it through and thinking how we're going to do it as safely as possible to make sure that we do get to go home at the end of the day.
Finally, I think it's about mitigating those risks, just sharing that information with the, the wider network, with your family, with your partner. And now gents, before we go, I just need to ask you possibly the most important question of the day when it comes to a cream tea. Is it jam first or cream first?
Paul Mahon
I'm struggling with this one because. Having grown up in Devon, but now been living in Cornwall for many years. Um, oh yeah. I, I think I'm gonna have to go, I think I'm gonna have to go jam first. Although, having, having said that, when I'm at, um, Devon County Show, if there is cream first, I, I probably wouldn't turn it away
Peter Green
sitting firmly on the fence.
Paul, uh, Nick, how about you?
Nick Lay
Well, I hope this isn't too controversial for a cornishman, although my, my wife's from Devon, so I dunno whether that's had some influence. I would actually say cream first for the simple fact that I just think it's easier to spread jam on cream than it is to spread cream on jam.
I'm sorry. That's just the physics of it for me.
Peter Green
Yeah, that's a very technical answer and I, I think probably, we'll, we'll, we'll have to give you that one, Nick. Um, yeah, it doesn't, uh, doesn't bring the same glow to my heart that Paul's answer did. Sorry. They are Cornish Mutual farming insurance experts. A big thank you to my guests, to Fred Collins, to Paul Man, and to Nick Lay.
Episodes of Farming focus are released every fortnight on Tuesdays. Please spread the word about the pod, tell your farming neighbors and maybe discuss a couple of the showstoppers from this podcast with people in your network over the next few days. That's what this podcast is all about. We're trying to start conversations.
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Farming Focus wherever you get your podcasts. And contact us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook using the handle at Cornish Mutual to get involved in the conversation. Join us in another fortnight's time when we'll be exploring the opportunities, the sustainable farming incentive and the new policy framework could bring for your business and what it really means for farmers.
In the Southwest. Please see the show notes for more information. On today's episode, including the link to our podcast disclaimer, so you've been listening to Farming Focus, brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I've been Peter Green, and until next time, it's goodbye from me and everyone in the Cornish Mutual podcast team,
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