We explore whether regenerative agriculture has a place in the marketplace? Host Peter Green is joined by Mark Brooking who is the Sustainability Director at First Milk and Dorset dairy farmer Sophie Gregory who produces organic milk for Arla and sits on their board.
We’ve mentioned regenerative agriculture quite a bit so far in this series but this has often been in relation to the soil and farming practices. What, if any, relevance does it have in the marketplace? Could a regenerative brand or set of values work to increase revenue on farms, add value to west country produce and provide opportunity for a more resilient economic future? Or, should regen ag remain a farmer led movement only relevant to farming practices? Well, to debate this subject we are joined by Mark Brooking who is the Sustainability Director at First Milk and Dorset dairy farmer Sophie Gregory who produces organic milk for Arla.
Throughout this series we are focusing on the topic of resilience.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
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Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle.
00:14 Peter Green introduces today's show.
01:42 How is First Milk working with farmers to encourage regenerative practices?
04:38 Sophie describes her farm and how she is using regenerative practices on her farm.
08:47 There is a demand for doing things differently from consumers, but regenerative agriculture is quite a complicated message to put across, says Mark.
11:52 Sophie explains Arla's frame on regenerative agriculture and how regenerative milk could mean different things to differnet farms.
14:24 Sophie explains what being an organic farm means and how she has to farm alongside nature.
15:19 What does resilience mean for Mark?
17:44 Can we be too carbon centric? The need to look at things holistically.
18:03 What does resilience mean for Sophie?
20:00 Adding value in different ways.
20:22 The pros and cons of having a regenerative standard.
22:49 Sophie explains that you don't want to alienate people from regenerative agriculture.
24:14 Peter sums up today's show.
26:30 Sophie says that everyone should try something, even if it's on a small area.
27:23 Mark encourages farmers to visit someone who has tried something.
28:08 Cream tea question.
29:22 Peter finishes the show.
Jingle
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Peter Green
Welcome to episode eight of this first series of Farming Focus, the new podcast brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I'm your host Peter Green. Throughout this series we're encouraging farmers across Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Dorset to ask themselves how resilient their businesses are going forwards and what can we all do to make them and ourselves more resilient.
One way of increasing the resilience of any business is taking a really good look at your market potential and where you sell your produce. We've mentioned regenerative agriculture quite a bit so far in this series, but this has often been in relation to soil and farming practices. So what, if any, relevance does farming in a regenerative way have in the marketplace?
Could a regenerative mark, brand, or set of values work to increase revenue on farms, add value to West country produce, and maybe provide a more resilient economic future? Or should regenerative agriculture remain a farmer led movement, only relevant to farming practices? To debate this subject, we're joined by Mark Brooking, who is the Sustainability Director at First Milk, and Dorset dairy farmer Sophie Gregory, who produces organic milk for Arla and sits on a number of their boards.
Mark, how's First Milk working with its farmers to encourage regenerative practices?
Mark Brooking
Well, Peter, we basically started this, uh, this journey several years ago, I suppose, in essence, actually, we started off in a different place that she's like, you know, needed to explain to the members that she's like, you know, that in essence, that she's like, you know, the dairy industry and not just first milk, but the dairy industry was under attack, and therefore we needed to look at things slightly differently of how we could actually like, you know, get our farmers to both in the first instance, protect themselves.
How much is like the industry that's just like, you know, the dairy industry as a whole, but then actually promote it. We did a lot of research with our members to look at the farming systems that she's like that they had. And what, what we found that she's like, you know, is before the term regenerative was even being coined that she's like, you know, I would say is we, we worked out that we had a large group of grazing dairy farmers operating in the west of the country.
And in essence, actually, it's like, you know, we find that she's like, you know, that they were already doing an awful lot of regenerative practices. If you take regenerative, eventually it's like in its simplest terms, so therefore I think we were pushing open doors and what we find is being very successful is getting them to operate and work together.
So, through the series of workshops, eventually it's like, you know, in peer to peer learning seems to be the way. And I have to say is that she's like, you know, that we've got, uh, which is like, you know, a completely united sort of like, you know, group of farmers behind us that are looking to actually is like, you know, make a difference.
Peter Green
Fantastic. And also, um, correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, but First Milk have also got, um, a golden hooves scheme and a brand that they're working with.
Mark Brooking
One of the things that we, uh, we're very much is actually produced a lot of cheddar, which is sold into the retail market as own brand cheddar. What we felt is actually is like, is that we wanted to, uh, you know, have something to be able to promote regenerative agriculture to the consumer.
The consumer research we've done is actually is like, you know, says that they, they are looking for something, which is a farming system. I use the term, uh, Mrs. Smith in Croydon that she's like, you know, a fictitious lady. If if she does, if she drew a farm, which was, which is like, you know, she wanted to buy dairy products from she would draw a first milk farm.
This is like, you know, and therefore the golden who's brand is. Um, is there to actually like, you know, to promote our regenerative milk, which is then made into cheese. And the reason it's called golden hooves, which is like, you know, is obviously we need the golden hooves on the soil to regenerate the earth.
Yeah, that's sold really through both milk vending and also cheddar cheese as well, which is a brand.
Peter Green
That's fab. Thank you very much. Sophie, could you tell us about your farm, the system, how many acres, how many cattle, um, how many members of the team and, and perhaps moving on to the ways in which you're using regenerative practices, please.
Sophie Gregory
Yeah, of course. So, um, we're Dorset Devon Border. We've actually got fields in Dorset, Devon and Somerset, and I'm still not sure on the line of those. That's very on trend for a Cornish Mutual, uh, South Western Shore podcast. Perfect. We averagely milk 360 cows a year. We are calving twice a year, so a nine week block in the spring, and then another nine week in the autumn.
And some people would say we're slightly confused all year round calvers, but we find. who blocks seats as well, uh, maybe hides a bit of fertility, but it works for the farm. We'd probably have to milk a few less cows if we hadn't, we've really only got the housing to milk, yeah, certain amounts. So we dry some off ready for spring carving.
We're, yeah, been organic nearly nine years now. Um, and that goes through Arla and we are. mainly grass. Um, we have got an arable block, but that's sort of separate from the dairy. That's run totally separately. We, we have a bit of silage off that, but yes, the grain sold organic to organic too. Yeah. So the interesting thing probably about our farm is that we set up, we.
It's a tenanted farm, the whole thing's tenanted, uh, about 1500 acres now, but we started at 20 percent share with a business partner, um, we 25, um, when we started farming and we bought him to 50 percent about four years ago, and then we're just, um, in the process of buying him out.
So that was a great mentor. He farms organically across all his units. Um, but I suppose probably four years ago, maybe five actually now, we did our first soil samples and we actually were finding, we'd done, we'd done the first year base ones when we started and we actually, the second lot five years after that.
We're actually finding that some of the soil indices were degrading, which actually we thought as like organic farmers, we were really quite cross about this and we were actually, what are we doing? Um, maybe some of, because being organic, it's quite, you know, weeds and things is difficult. So plowing does come into it and we don't have that toolbox.
So I think of chemicals to use instead, like obviously organically, you can't use any insecticides, herbicides, and pesticides. So, you know, the plow was quite a feature in how we were farming. So we stopped using the plow. Um, we're sort of mintilling now. So just instead of doing a whole re feed, um, so whole like new paddock of grass, we would just stitch into what we've already got.
And instead we're doing that more regularly than, you know, then every five years, re testing the whole paddock. We've got our hedgeline, um, uh, hedgerow management plan where we're not clipping like we were before with, you know, flail on a longer period because different animals like different shapes and length hedges.
We've planted over the last two years. We were quite worried about herbal lacing and I think we were like so focused on clovers that we were like a bit worried to like to try different things. So about two years ago we started adding some things into our mixes. So we now, you know, have a bit of chicory, a bit of plantain, samphoine, um, Thessalonians, and That way we've, yeah, increased diversity in, in our fields.
Um, what we found is that we planted, the first we planted everything, some of it just didn't grow. So we've taken them out to mixes. We've put two different mixes. Now we're, we're, some of the farms like quite dry ground, some quite wet clay. And now we have two different mixes, which we've made with the guy we buy our seed from.
And that's worked really well. Different things. growing different, um, soil types. All of our young stock are outwintered, which has really helped quite dilapidated arable block that hadn't really seen animals for about 80 years. So you invest in some water up there and then they're outwintered and actually the growth and the soil condition has changed massively from just integrating animals back into a, uh, an area of land that had been.
in animals for a long time.
Peter Green
Mark, if I can just come back to you, uh, we've heard there about regenerative practices from Sophie and, and clearly they're not things which are necessarily cheap to do. There needs to be a value for the farmer, but do you see a place for labeled regenerative foods in the marketplace?
Do you think consumers would, would pay extra for them?
Mark Brooking
Yes, most definitely. I think there is a demand, which is like, you know, for, which is like consumers to be given permission. Almost to eat, which is like, you know, dairy and it's just like, you know, they're looking for answers and it's down to us as an industry.
I think to deliver those answers. I'm not so sure that actually is like, you know, we go out and say regenerative agriculture is the is the brand that we try to sell because it is quite a complicated message to put across. But what I do think is important is actually is like the outcomes and that's why it's really important for us as people in the industry and certainly from our perspective is we need to be able to demonstrate positive outcomes that we can tell the consumer what's actually happening.
I'll give you a classic. We just, we just had a, uh, but she's like, you know, a roadshow of, uh, uh, summer celebrations. We won a King's award. She's like, you know, for sustainability. I saw that's incredible. Yeah, no, it's actually, and that's all down to our farmers, which is like, you know, that, that's what they basically won that for.
And, and then also B Corp, uh, which is like as well. So, but these events actually, like we literally had thousands of, of consumers coming to farms and we were doing things such as a dung beetle safari. It's just like, you know, so getting, getting families and kids to come out and actually is like, you know, hunt for dung beetles.
Peter Green
And I'm guessing that's a really good opportunity for consumers to get on farm and understand a bit more about what regenerative agriculture means, because do you think there's the understanding at the moment?
Mark Brooking
I don't know. I don't think there is. I don't think there is, which is like, you know, it is, as I say, if you know, even if you have a debate within the dairy industry about, you know, regenerative agriculture, we can't even agree necessarily is, is, is the definition.
So, but what I think they do understand is by doing the, um, the actions that she's like, and the reasons why dung beaters are important, but also, you know, showing them. Getting them to count worms, then working out how many worms are in the field, literally millions of worms and the beneficial part of that and the sort of the whole soil food web, they certainly get that they get the biodiversity piece.
If you only have to see all the programs on wildlife, there is an interest there. And I think we need to be able to say we're positively working towards eventually is like improving these, these aspects. So a hundred percent, which is like, you know, the, the feedback we've had has been fantastic. There's an interest out there.
People are coming along to learn and then we just need to link it. And that's where marketeers, I think, come into as far as how do we link, whether it's a golden hooves or another brand to say, if you buy this, You are doing something which is beneficial to you, which is like biodiversity, soil, carbon, et cetera.
Peter Green
So it's not necessarily the case at the moment that consumers would pay a premium yet, but we're not saying that that might never happen, but Sophie, do you think the benefits are perhaps more intangible and, and, you know, might not just be financial.
Sophie Gregory
Yeah, I think so. I think um, Arla's probably taken a slightly different tact on regenerative agriculture.
I think, um, because it's such a diverse group milk pool link, so we've got, you know, housed herds through to how we farm organically. There's not, you know, it's working out actually, bar we're doing a regenerative pilot, actually what regenerative means to each different type of milk supplier. So we're not trying to aim...
Yeah. Alien, any of this, we want, you know, this year, as you probably heard, Down to earth was hosted at Neil Baker's. Well, Neil was on the Regen pilot like we are. He's totally different system, just down the road from us. And it's what actually Regen means to him. The thing with Regen, I think we don't actually need to define it.
As long as it is everyone looking at their business and thinking, what can I regenerate? What can I change? What can I do? It's going that stage probably further than sustainability because probably what we've been doing is sustaining something that's not good enough. And the Arla Regen pilot's been brilliant for that because across the whole of the, um, European pool, so six farms from each country are involved.
So actually last week I was visiting, um, a Swedish, um, Regen farm on the pilot. I was there for another hour. A piece of work to do with having a mentor over there, but I visited another, you know, the pilot farm, which totally different, but there's no way that how we farm here, they could do over there.
They have six month winters, so actually they taking the bits of region that applied to them so that, you know, that they actually were able to grow quite a few more crops. They were a lot more self sufficient than we were, and that was important to them because actually they have a long winter period and they need to feed those cows well in that period.
So actually getting good crops. in their control was more important and they were changing how they were establishing them. Um, and they were putting cover crops on, things like that. So I think regen can mean so many different things, um, to different people, but I don't believe that we have to fully refine it.
Like Mark was saying, it, even if the consumer doesn't fully understand it, the fact that it's being positive about. The agricultural industry, I think, can only be a good thing. Yeah. So, um, what I'm hearing from, from both of you is that Regen is less of a textbook and more of a toolkit. And there's this acknowledgement from, I think, all parties, certainly within agriculture, that every farm is different.
You know, the land, the labor, the capital, the setup, it's different on every farm. And there'll be different pieces of the regenerative. Playbook, if you like that, that each farm can take and adopt.
Peter Green
I heard you talking, Sophie, on another podcast about how it's important to sort of farm with the seasons. And I guess that, that goes with it.
Sophie Gregory
Perhaps as an organic farmer, we're very much more at the power of nature. So we don't have that toolbox. If you know, if we want, we need, you know, the rain comes and we want to. get the grass growing. We can't just put some nitrogen on it. We are spring start a bit later. Um, clover doesn't get going until a certain temperature.
So we are waiting for that. We can't just put nitrogen on. So I think probably organically, we have to farm alongside nature a lot more, which I think can be challenging, but also quite exciting. That's one way of putting it. Well, I mean, every year is so different, but it is, you know, it's, it's building resilience into that system.
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Peter Green
Mark, we're thinking about resilience in this series of the podcast, what does resilience mean to you and how can added value and irrespective of whether or not it's from regen improve a farmer's resilience?
Mark Brooking
Well, I think Peter H is like, you know, in essence, actually, it's like, you know, I would say for our members actually explain this to our customers.
I mean, and this would be the same with Sophie we're talking about. Farmers are making generational decisions rather than there's no, there's no three or five year plans. So therefore, which is like, you know, I think, um, what we need to do is that she's like, you know, the ability for farmers to be able to pass their farms on to the next generations that she's like is so important.
And. Resilience to me is that she's like, here is the ability to be able to not just survive, but they need to be able to invest in the future. Everything regenerative agriculture, it's a kind of verb. It's something you don't, you don't all of a sudden become regenerative. It's something you continue to do.
And I think it's so important that we have that kind of mindset and. It really is about actually like, you know, improving your resilience, which is like, you know, to be able to better cope with, uh, which is like, you know, the weather events that we, the changing seasons that we're seeing now. Again, I just see regenerative agriculture is, is helping farmers to actually like improve their resilience, such as like to extreme weather events, which is like, cause it seems like we're going to get them.
So when we get those, um, really challenging events, that's not an opportunity to, well, that's not a time to be thinking, oh, crumbs, what do we do? It's a time to maybe step back and think, ah, hold on.
Peter Green
We've got a challenge here. It's probably going to come up. You know, what, what can we do to review our system and make a small tweak?
Mark Brooking
Absolutely. You know, using plant diversity, which is like, you know, can we actually is like, you know, capturing moisture deeper in the soil, which is like, you know, but also increasing soil organic matter, improving the water holding capacity of the fields. You know, there's, there's a nanny number of things that we need to have.
Different mindset in the past, I think, as far as, you know, we worked in, you know, agriculture, particularly dairy farm for many years, you know, if you end up with a single target, let's say, you know, and it used to be yield and yield per cow only, that's not delivering resilience because there are things, whether it's, you know, fluctuations in commodity prices or weather events can actually put you off off track.
Peter Green
So I think a different mindset is required for sure. And I think there's a danger, isn't there? Just, just taking that one point, Mark, um, that we may be as a, as a nation, um, get a little bit fixated on carbon, get too carbon centric. Yeah, 100%. I just, I think we, we spend a lot of time just saying, this is not about the carbon footprint.
That's just like, you know, this is, this is as much as actually is like, you've got to look at things holistically. That's the whole thing about regenerative thinking. Yeah. And, and Sophie, what does resilience mean to you? I think it's, um, it's a really good question. Actually, resilience. I think some of it is to control what you can.
Sophie Gregory
So part of the resilience for us is knowing that actually that weather we can't control you to take a step away from that. But we need to have a plan in place that if it. If that happens, you know, it's twice now we've had that two seasons now. So actually, how is that the new normal? So maybe we have to make some silage bales.
So we're flexible that that can be fed easier. It's, it's kind of having a plan B and not expecting every season to be, you know, luscious grass, but also looking at maybe, uh, like we're doing with. Adding plant diversity. And I think the biggest thing with resilience is we're part of a discussion group, a couple of discussion groups, actually, and part of it is sharing that and finding out what other people are doing, because actually when you're in the middle of a drought, you can feel quite isolated that actually it's only you that's going through this, which is totally ridiculous because half the country is brown, but that really, that, that really helps us to talk to other farmers that are going through it and ask what they're doing.
Such a danger on farm isn't there to be stuck in your own bubble. Oh, massively. And I think because it's, it is such a part of your life, the farm, you know, you live on farm, you eat it and breathe it. Don't you? It's daily life. But I think your part of resilience is being adaptable as well. Like Mark was saying, you know, it's the gaining things to be able to pass on to the next generation, but also leaving them in a better state.
Yeah. And they were, A lot of people are looking at that now to make sure that they are passing their farms on to the, to the next generation. I mean, ours is all tenanted, so actually the value, you know, what we're adding to the farm, you know, it's not owned by us. But I think landlords are starting to see the value in having tenants that look after the farm in a certain way.
They don't probably want certain practices that then, then create certain outcomes. They, I think landlords are being more specific about. What, what they want from their land. And that's really interesting. Cause in your answer there, you've talked about adding, adding value in different ways, twice, you know, once for a landlord, having a tenant, who's going to look after their asset, their, their farm, their land in a certain way, but also maybe having different sort of, um, income streams.
Peter Green
You just, you touched on Mark. If we were going to move towards creating a regenerative standard that was marketable, would it be possible? Would it, would it be the right thing to do? You know, what are the pros and cons of doing that?
Mark Brooking
Yeah, I, I'm not for it. She's like having a regenerative standards, which is like, you know, as it should be, be very clear about that to start with.
Um, and the reason being is that she's like, I think, I think what we would do is that she's like, you know, we could, we could end up stifling innovation. I see our members. Yes, we've got 700 members, which is like, you know, and there's 700 different ways of doing things. And they're all at different stages on this journey.
And I think to try and shoehorn it into a, uh, one, one standard of, which is like, you know, I don't think it would, it would actually work, it's just like, you know, and it could actually, it's like, you know, put people off. The one thing about it is that she's like, you know, as, as in any new thing, we've got early adopters that some of our members are going out there and making rapid changes.
And, you know, are just so enthused about it, where others are more cautious. And actually, as I can say, I want to just try a couple of fields, such as like, you know, my plant diversity will be, I'll put one extra, which is like, you know, type of plant. I might put plantain in, for instance. And I think the, that flexibility definitely allows us to, as a set of principles, rather than a standard.
And they're sharing those ideas by, you know, having, um, discussion groups and, and things like that. Yeah. Discussion groups, such as like, you know, farm walks, but also actually having mentors within, within the business. So we've got people who may have been rotational grazing for 20, 30 years and, and very successfully somebody who has not done it.
And it's just like, you know, even if you can read a book about it, there's nothing better. If you can get a. Farmers basically has seen all the, you know, has made some mistakes and then can be able to come into another one and actually say, look, this is what I would do. Um, you know, peer to peer learning is so important here actually, I think.
An awful lot of these things are not huge costs and therefore, you know, do your own mini experiments on your farm. Yep. So again, I, I, I don't think a standard, and again, it is like, you know, I, I can see a pitfall there if we're not careful is that she's like, you know, trying to explain a relatively complex.
Subjects, if you take regenerative agriculture, you know, it's just like, you know, to, to, to steal that, to a sensible message for the consumer would be difficult. Yeah. I think we need to concentrate on outcomes.
Peter Green
So Sophie, we've talked there a little bit about, um, a set of marketable standards. Is it possible?
And I think probably what we're saying is you can't define a rigid set of standards, they'd be too restrictive. Is that fair?
Sophie Gregory
I think that's fair, and I think you just don't want to alienate people from this. I think the biggest thing with regen farming is, I'm sort of, part of me is thinking, you know, this word, I'm going off the word, because some people don't like, you know, some people have heard enough of it, and it, you know, it's alienating some people.
But to me, if regenerative gets people excited about agriculture, then, you know, I don't think there's any negative in it. I don't agree that with having standards for it. I think it, it like, um, I was saying that it actually then becomes quite restrictive and you get people that actually feel massively alienated, don't want to try.
And I think we're not, you know, it's a journey massively. And also it means so many different things to different farmers. You know, for me, we have a lot of school visits on farm. So for me, that is, that's an important part of our regeneration because it's the local community. And, and if those kids then go and choose to drink dairy that might not have done, then that's.
That is a huge regeneration of what we're, what we're selling. Um, if that makes sense. Um, so I think, yeah, we definitely don't need, need standards or an actually, you know, a corporate signal over this. I think that's probably why I've done what they've done is, is that we're exploring it with a group of farmers to then feedback as a cooperative feedback to the membership.
And, and that might invite others that want to get involved in different parts of it. Wow, that's great. We've covered an awful lot of ground today. And now, um, I've got to try and sort of summarize that as best I can. Um, it feels like, you know, the situation is that, you know, farmers have felt that we've been under attack.
Peter Green
And Mark, you talked about that at the beginning of our conversation. And, and, and actually what you've been trying to do is to encourage them to sort of have confidence in what they're doing and to promote what they're doing. We've said that regenerative shouldn't be a word that people feel is too rigid.
You know, actually what we're talking about a really quite broad principles of having healthy soil, which means that we've got healthy animals, which means that what they produce gives us food, which nourishes a healthy human. And that's a fantastic positive for all of society. You know, it takes the burden off the NHS and it means that we're all living better lives.
So what's the benefit for farmers? Well, it feels like it's not necessarily just going to be financial. I think we need to get our heads around that. It's not going to be something that we can slap a label on and get paid 20 percent more by the supermarkets. There's actually going to be intangible benefits.
There's going to be benefits to our soil, which will make our farms, our businesses and us. More resilient and I can see you both nodding at that, but also there's social benefits. You know, the way we interact with people, the way we can have conversations with our consumers, particularly if we're direct marketing can be so much more positive.
There's such a great story to tell there. And we've already touched a little bit on, um, telling our story in a previous podcast. And I guess the final thing is, you know, what, what can farmers listening to this do? Well, it's, it's not one size fits all. We've heard a lot about getting a mentor. Um, and Sophie, I know that's something you're involved in.
I'd love to unpack that more with you, but people must, um, go to your Instagram page, farmer underscore in underscore training, um, to see a bit more about what you do. Um, cause that's a, an awesome, um, and really insightful Instagram page that I'd push people towards. Mark, you talked about reviewing what's changing.
Um, you know, and I think probably. We need to control what we can and plan for the variables as, as you said, Sophie, um, and just engage in the bits that work for you. You know, it's less of a textbook and, and more of a toolkit. Is there anything else that you guys would like to add to that?
Sophie Gregory
I mean, probably like Mark was saying is that everyone just needs to give.
A little thing ago. So I think Mark was saying that he was encouraging people to just try things in small, small areas. You know, we've, we did some trials on the herbal lathe before we went all in on it. Um, and now all of our mixes would include a diversity of, of different herbs and grasses, but I think you don't have to, people don't have to listen to this podcast and think, Oh, I'm, I'm never going to plow a field before again, even.
I think people just have to give small things a go and see what works for them. Yep. Like you're saying, it's not a textbook thing. It is just give something a go. Yeah. Talk to people in the area, maybe discussion group, you know, look, look on social media. There's a lot out there. If you just use the regen ag and regenerative agriculture tags.
Peter Green
Sorry, Mark.
Mark Brooking
I think with all these things, if any change, there are some naysayers. But again, to combat that, I, I just say to people that, you know, just I'll tell you what, it's just like, you know, go and go and visit somebody who's actually tried something or as, as we keep on saying, try it yourself, what we find or I find that just like, you know, is that you get people so enthused.
She's like, you know, and they become, and they go, I, I, I knew this stuff before and actually I've stopped. I've stopped doing it. And she's like, you know, and, and therefore actually's like, you know, it puts some real, you know, joy and pride back into farming. Yeah. She's like, you know, because it's things that actually farmers can do without spending a lot of money.
Yeah. And she's like, you know, it is pretty straightforward stuff, so, yeah.
Peter Green
Yeah. Change as an agent for change rather than change as something to be feared, isn't it? Fantastic. We've covered a lot of ground today and all that remains is to ask the most important question of them all. I can see you both laughing, which I'm not sure I appreciate.
When eating a cream tea, is it jam first Or cream first mark, I'm going to go to you.
Mark Brooking
It's obviously it's got to be cream first. as far as and then jam. I mean, it's clotted cream was, was actually invented in Devon. So as far as in somebody from Devon basically is needs to, to make that very clear. I'm pretty sure my eight times great grandma scolded some cream, you know, way before that.
Peter Green
So I'm definitely not, I'm not buying that mark, but thank you for your answer.
No less valuable. Sophie how about you?
Sophie Gregory
I'm sorry. I mean, I'm going to back Mark on this. I'm afraid it is much my dad who lives in Cornwalls at this disgust. Um, it is actually, uh, yeah, cream first jam on top.
Peter Green
Wow. A landslide. Okay. I don't know that it's going to be easy to scoop myself up off the floor for that one, but I'll try my best.
Thank you so much to both of my guests, Mark Brooking and Sophie Gregory. Um, we've had a great discussion. Uh, it's been brilliant. Thank you so much. Um, next time we'll be looking at the vaccination debate for tuberculosis in the Southwest and asking how improving biosecurity on farms can improve. Our resilience.
So join us in a fortnight for that episode. If you haven't already, please rate review and subscribe to our show. That really helps in letting other people know that we exist, but word of mouth is the best way. So please talk to your farming friends and neighbors about the podcast and get the conversations.
Started whether that's when you bump into the shop or market, or even share the podcast with them on your phone. If you know someone who you think would enjoy the series, but hasn't dabbled with podcasts yet, maybe take a minute to get them set up on whichever platform you use. And please do get in touch with us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at Cornish mutual.
And let us know what you thought of today's episode, have a look at the show notes for more information on today's episode, including the link to our podcast disclaimer. You've been listening to Farming Focus brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I've been Peter Green and until next time it's goodbye from me and everyone in the Cornish Mutual podcast team.
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Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts.