Peter is joined by Helen Browning (Wiltshire farmer and CEO at Soil Association) and Jake Freestone (Worcestershire farmer) to discuss the future of farming.
In this second series of Farming Focus we're asking the question 'does my farm have a future?' We're going to reflect on what lies ahead and on some of the exciting solutions being put forward.
For the opening episode host Peter Green is joined by Helen Browning, a Wiltshire farmer who is also CEO of the Soil Association, and Jake Freestone who manages Overbury Farms in Worcestershire.
Farming Focus is the podcast for farmers in the South West of England, but is relevant for farmers outside of the region or indeed anyone in the wider industry or who has an interest in food and farming.
For more information on Cornish Mutual visit cornishmutual.co.uk
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Timestamps
00:01 Cornish Mutual jingle
00:15 Peter Green introduces the episode.
01:53 'Peter's Future Farm in 60 Seconds'
03:20 Cornish Mutual jingle.
03:28 Peter welcomes Helen and Jake to the podcast.
03:40 Helen introduces her farm.
04:20 Jake introduces Overbury Enterprises.
05:48 What changes is Jake anticipating at Overbury?
06:50 How prepared is UK farming for the future?
08:05 What do farmers need to do to thrive in the future? - Jake offers his thoughts.
10:54 UK food policy - how do farmers balance production and the environment? Helen offers her thoughts.
12:35 Will there be particular types of farm that will struggle? Helen doesn't think so but thinks that it is more about the farmer than the farm.
13:35 Jake on 'survival of the fittest'
14:23 Cornish Mutual jingle
14:32 What are the opportunities for farmers in the south west?
15:42 How might the profile of the agricultural work force change?
17:02 Investment in tech.
18:53 Will small farms benefit from tech and innovation going forwards?
19:57 What is Jake doing now to help his farm thrive going forwards?
20:38 What is Helen doing to help her farm thrive in future?
21:30 Showstoppers - 3 key points to take away.
23:10 What skill or attribute will farmers need in future - in 3 words.
23:50 Peter concludes the episode.
Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts.
Welcome to another series of Farming Focus, the podcast for southwest farmers brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I'm your host Peter Green, a Cornish farmer and businessman. Through this new series we're going to focus on the future of farming. Asking what you can do to put yourself and your farm in the best possible position to face what lies ahead.
Don't forget to check out series one if you haven't already listened to that. There's so much good stuff there when it comes to resilience which was our series theme. Today though to kickstart our new series we're asking the question Does my farm have a future? Uh, not necessarily my farm in particular, but all of our farms.
It's a really important question. And I think it can help us to, to really think about our purpose, which gives a focus and a clarity to everything that we do. We're going to reflect on what lies ahead and some of the exciting solutions that are being put forward. To discuss this, I'm joined by two well known farmers, Helen Browning, who farms in Wiltshire is also CEO at the soil association and Jake Freestone, who is farm manager at over brief farms in Worcestershire.
But before we go over to our guests, I'm going to kick start with a brand new feature for this series. And it's about me putting my money where my mouth is and reflecting on the future for my farm here in Cornwall. I've been asked to talk around one thing each episode that I'm doing to allow my farm to thrive into the future and I have to do this in a minute or less.
It's time for Peter's Future Farm in 60 seconds.
The farm was just about profitable when I returned in 2007 but the return on the value of the assets was poor at about one percent so the priority for me was increasing the return. We looked at the profitability of every activity and then did five things. Number one, stop doing things that lost money.
This meant temporary selling the cows. We look to improve the margin on existing activities. For example, renting out ground to graziers, three identified assets that weren't working hard enough. So unused sheds were advertised for storage. Four, leverage the strengths of the business, which led to contracting for neighbors.
Five, look for new projects that would have a better return, such as solar panels. And now we review all new ideas for three things. That return. So will the margin of this project be greater than our overall margin affordability? So do we have the funds? And if not, is the margin after we've borrowed still acceptable and feasibility?
Do we have the skills and resource to execute this project successfully? As a result, the profit, the business is profitable without subsidy and feels more in control. As we plan for the future.
Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts. Doing what is right for you every day. And now to our guests. Helen, welcome. Hi, how are you doing? Yeah, good. Thank you very much. And welcome to you, Jake. Thank you very much for having me on the show. Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you both for coming along. Uh, can you each introduce your farms describing how you think they might change as we move into the future?
Helen, perhaps you could go first. Uh, okay. Well, we run a 1600 acre, mostly tenanted farm, tenanted from the church of England, always traditionally been a very mixed organic farm. I went organic in 1986. And today it's becoming slightly more specialist, actually, as my, uh, daughter and son in law take the reins.
We're becoming much more dairy focused, uh, once a day regenerative organic dairy system. And I'm concentrating my time and effort actually on agroforestry. So on 200 acres that I actually own, planting lots of diverse trees and, um, doing all sorts of fun stuff like that. Also growing some cereals, keep a few pigs and some beef and other things as well.
But the majority is now dairying. And Jake, can you introduce Overbury Farms and the changes that you think it will see in the future? I farm Overbury Enterprises, actually, for the Holland Martin family. It's been in the same family for just over 300 years. When I came here, I was tasked with improving it and setting it up for the next 300.
So no mean feat at all, and no pressure. So we are, yes, we're a leaf demonstration farm, linking environment and farming. And sustainability is at the core of what we're about. So. We're about 1600 hectares of in house farming here. We do a contracting agreement with a neighbor on their arable farm on 200 hectares next door.
Combine more crops, wheat, barley, oilseed, rape, peas, beans, linseed. We've tried Sawyer, we've tried quinoa in the past. We've got quite a lot of permanent pasture and that's managed with just over 1100 um es that are lambing outdoors. And then on the wider part of the business, we've got, uh, ongoing higher tier stewardship agreements.
We're just about to sign up for, uh, the sustainable farming incentive. And we've also got a nursery school on the farm. We've got some property, a holiday house, uh, a chute, and some forestry as well. So. It's actually on the, on the wider estate, if you like, it's, it's quite a diverse business already. So there's a lot going on and, and how about the future?
You know, what changes are you anticipating on, on Overbury farms? It's a really good question. I think the future is a little bit murky, actually. There's not a lot of clarity, certainly from a political angle of what they would like us to be doing with the land. Changes are definitely afoot in terms of enterprise shifting a bit more diversity of income streams.
I think that's going to be very important. Try to ride out some of the volatility that we are. Seeing most recently, but that volatility is going to carry on into the future. So, um, spread of enterprises, I think more stewardship, um, and land management agreements will come to the fore, whether that's in the form of carbon biodiversity, uh, water catchment, um, opportunities.
Uh, so there is lots to sort of juggle around with at the moment. And I think that's. Part of the challenge actually that farmers are facing at the moment is this sort of this murky uncertainty as to the direction of travel, if you like. Helen, what lies ahead for farmers, in your opinion, and how prepared is the sector?
Well, I think as Jake's just said, it's quite hard to know what lies ahead. You know, we're in a period of hugely rapid change. I don't think that's going to slow down. If anything, I think it's going to accelerate. So we've got all the climate risks that are ahead, social pressures, technology. So I think it's challenging for farmers when you're trying to plan quite a long term business within a very rapidly changing external environment.
And how prepared are we for that? Well, to be honest, I don't think we are very prepared for it at all, and it's quite hard to prepare. Um, when you are not knowing quite what's going to hit when so I think quite a lot of farmers, quite understandably, it's a bit easier just to put your head in the sand slightly and think, um, let's do what we've always done, um, and feeling slightly beleaguered and, and perhaps even under attack because there are so many pressures on the land that we're looking after.
So many people wanting so many different things from it and trying to weave your way through that, I think is, is quite a challenge for a lot of farmers. Yeah, absolutely. So Jake, we talked about where we are. We talked about a few of the issues. What does farming and what do farmers need to do to thrive going forwards?
Yeah, great question. We need to be investing in the next generation of farmers. Um, I think that's really crucial. The investment of skills that we can pass on, um, sort of knowledge that has gained. I think is really important and our colleges and universities have got a huge role to play in that more locally.
We need to look at collaboration. I think that's hugely important and I guess probably where you are, Peter in Cornwall, lots of smaller farms, collaboration there is going to be crucial. How can farmers work together, share machinery, share land use buildings opportunity. Yeah, actually, I think that's I completely agree, but I think that's something we haven't necessarily done loads of before.
I think, um. We like having our, our, our little Island with our own machinery and doing our own thing. But actually that, that sharing is going to be increasingly important. I agree. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I would, I would also agree that farmers have not been great at doing that. And I would probably put myself in that category as well.
Um, you know, on the scale that we are, there is still opportunity to, to share and work with some of our, some of our local farmers as well. Um, I've been looking after costs, you said about it in your introduction of your business, looking at costs in each of the enterprises that we have and properly analyzing those to see which ones pay.
looking at how we can reduce risk within the business. So we, from 2013, I guess we moved into a sort of regenerative agriculture system, um, cutting inputs, reducing machinery, um, which is helping improve the bottom line to where we are. I think looking for other opportunities, we've sort of touched on carbon biodiversity, landscape, um, opportunities as well.
Um, and maybe even looking at exploring off farm incomes as well for farmers. Uh, you know, as a way of supplementing what they're doing. And, you know, we'd all love to be in a place where farms can generate enough income for a family or two to live off. But realistically, we're not at that point at the moment.
And I can't really see that changing. So, and it might be better to make that decision sooner rather than later to avoid getting in too deep. With the bank, the cost of money is expensive at the moment. You know, 78 percent for things. Uh, okay, long term. That's probably not expensive, but in the short term that that is very expensive.
So I think there's a lot of things that we need to do and farmers can be positive about some of these opportunities. And that's a really interesting point. Actually being proactive can, can feel very empowering for people. You know, if you are in the position where you're making the choices about what happens, it can feel a lot better than having to react.
The point about, um, off farm incomes is really interesting because that's something which is quite common actually in, in places like Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, but it's not seen so much here in the UK, but I do think it's something which we, we do need to think about a little bit more. Helen. I'm really interested in in UK food policy and how farmers balance looking after the environment with producing enough food for a growing world population.
How can the UK industry as a whole address these twin issues? Well, we've got to because, uh, farming won't be very successful if we don't have a resilient, thriving environment. I mean, you know, the two are kind of, you know, inextricably linked, so it shouldn't feel like attention. And I think increasingly it's feeling much less of attention as more farmers start to recognize that their soils are really the basis of their farming system rather than just ignoring them or thinking they're just something that props crops up in.
Um, so I think there's a sort of growing understanding, particularly amongst this kind of more progressive group of regenerative farmers coming through now, as well, of course, as the organic farming lot. And organic farming has always come from that place of, of what we call sort of land sharing where we've.
Think we can produce plentiful healthy food and, uh, you know, look after the environment inherently within the system. That's not to say we don't need specialist habitats and that kind of thing as well, because we do for species that aren't farmland adapted to must be seen by farmers, not in competition, uh, but in collaboration and we need policy, which actually supports that coming together of environment and farming in a really positive, uh, way.
And I think the more that farmers start to experiment. with ways of rapidly improving their soil biology and thinking about how things like predator insects actually really will help their cropping systems, uh, take the pressure off costs. Uh, then I think we start to move this in the right direction. Do you think there are particular types of farm Helen that might struggle to survive in future?
And if so, why would that be? I don't think there are any particular farm types that will struggle struggle in the future, but I think there are some attitude types that might struggle. I think it's more about the farmer than the farm. When you're looking at the range of challenges and opportunities there are ahead, it will be much more about attitude and skills than it will be about farming type.
You can see farms of all shapes and sizes, uh, making a really great go of it and farms of all shapes and sizes struggling. Um, Yeah, yeah, that's a really, really interesting point and a good way of sort of actually categorizing farms, isn't it? Rather than thinking about the size necessarily. Jake, farming's seen huge periods of change before, uh, you know, we just think of the, the world wars, for example, um, some people respond to the present challenges by saying that, oh, well, you know, farmers are always adapted and they'll be fine.
But do you think we can just rely on that now? And, and. You know, does this overlap with the attitude piece that Helen's just spoken about? I guess that the challenge is, is just that, you know, survival of the fittest. I'd actually just made a thought about most farms are vulnerable, actually, at the moment.
You, if you look at the sort of the roller coaster over the last two or three years, Um, Dairy had a really, really good year. Arable had a really, really good year. And then both of those have had a bit of a plummet in the last 12 months. And I think that kind of rollercoaster is what we're going to be faced with.
I think careful management, planning, purchasing strategies, collaborations, working, using buying groups, all of these different tactics are going to play a role. across all of the sectors. Cornish Mutual, farming insurance experts, working to protect the farming community since 1903. Helen, what do you think the opportunities are for farmers in the South West particularly?
Well, I think where you have, um, higher levels of population and a beautiful countryside, you've got all sorts of opportunities to diversify and to welcome, you know, whether you call it agritourism or, uh, you know, you've got, uh, sales opportunities, you've got great location. Uh, you've got people on holiday.
Um, so I think that there are, uh, opportunities and diversification in the, in the Southwest. I think the opportunities, not just in the Southwest, but everywhere are in collaboration. I think where you have a traditionally in the, in the Southwest, some smaller farms, I think it's going to be very important for them to be working together, uh, to get some of the benefits of scale at times, or being able to specialize on that, on, on something they're good at, but actually work across a bigger acreage.
So I think that, uh, that there's a lot to like, you've got an amazing landscape. Uh, lots of people wanted to come and enjoy that. And, uh, a real. culture of family farms that if we can just get out of our own little isolated boxes and work together better, then I think that there are some good opportunities.
Thinking now about the profile of the agricultural workforce, Helen, are we going to see more or fewer people working on the land in future, do you think? It's really hard to tell, you know, that this trend has been downwards for a very long time now and I'd love to think that it's going to reverse. Um, that there are more opportunities for new entrants coming through.
And, you know, we talked briefly earlier on about part time farmers, and that's a dirty word in the UK in many ways, or certainly in England. Uh, but actually I don't think it should be. I think if we want to sort of, you know, move a lot of horticulture off the peat, for instance, you know, we want to see more people starting up smaller scale horticultural units, um, uh, fruit.
There's so many opportunities. Uh, at the same time, I do think we might end up with less seasonal workers. That's really it. really tough employing seasonal workers at the moment and clearly there's a big push towards as much automation as possible within some of those labor intensive sectors. Um, so I guess my wish is for more because I think a lot of people would love to have a life that was at least partly on the land.
I think it would be socially brilliant for that to happen, but I can see trends moving the other direction too, with increasing specialization and more automation. So, you know, we'll see. And what about the role of data and technology will farmers who don't necessarily invest in tech, lose out and fall behind the curve?
And does that investment have to be on a large scale? Does it have to be a large piece of kit? Yeah, great, great question. Um, no, I don't think it's exclusive to large bits of kit. I mean, one of the cheapest things that was grant funded is a light bar so that you can put your fertilizer on in a straight line, which to me is just a no brainer.
It's expensive. You don't want to put it, you don't want to miss, you don't want to overlap. And it's like a thousand pounds. So, you know, there are entry level things in there that people can get involved with one of the investments that we took to, sorry to interrupt, but to refer back to, to what I said at the start of the podcast, you know, you're looking there at the return and thinking, well, it's, it's a little bit of an outlay, but actually it's going to, it's going to give me a yield, which is just so worth having.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, um, and yield that's, that's accurate. And, uh, I guess. Not overlapping and wasting wasting that investment either. So that would be 1 of the 1st things to do. 1 of the best investments we've made is with a handheld chlorophyll meter so that we can actually look at the nitrate nitrogen levels within our props and whatever it says.
I normally. Take 20 percent off anyway. So there's, you know, there, there are things out there that we, that we can have a look at. Technology is changing very, very quickly. We need to upskill everybody, myself included in that, because it is a job to constantly be on top of the tech that is coming down the line.
We're an angry EPI engineering precision and innovation farm. So we do get to try lots of new technology here and evaluate it and see what it's like. So yeah, it's kind of almost full time job, just. You know, looking at these bits of kit to, to have a look at actually. And keeping across it. Yeah, absolutely.
Helen, a similar question. Really, as you know, many farms in the Southwest of England are relatively small and might have a land base of less than 150 acres. There'll be people listening who might feel that they just won't benefit from the developments that are being made in, in agricultural science at the moment.
What would you say to them? Well, I think, uh, you know, alongside what Jake's just said, I think there are, you know, the development of kind of service models, I think will be quite interesting. You don't have to own all this stuff. Just like everybody doesn't have to own their own combine this these days, you get a contractor in to come and do some of this stuff.
So I think, you know, it's not always about having to have it all yourself. But it makes a lot of sense to be either working with others or be thinking about the development of, you know, a service rather than a product that you have to, uh, to buy in. Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts. Helping you make your farm safer with tailored health and safety services that safeguards you, your family, employees, and your business.
Jake. What one practical thing are you doing now on your farm to help it thrive going forwards? So I mean, there's a whole host of things. If I was to pick one at the moment, the thing I'm really excited about, uh, is our understory of clover and our living mulch. We established it two and a half years ago, um, dwarf or micro clover that is living on the surface of the soil.
And we're direct drilling two crops of wheat into that over over two different harvests. I think that's got a big place on our farm going forward. That's great. Thank you so much. Helen, what are you really excited about? What are you doing on your farm today that's gonna gonna help it to thrive in the future?
Well, two things briefly. One, planting lots of trees, um, uh, both in our agroforestry systems, but also trying to get them in on the wider farm as well. I don't think our animals are going to be very happy in the future if we don't have shade and shelter, quite apart from all the other benefits. It always feels like such a long game because it's 20 years before they're any use to you.
But, you know, if you don't start now, you're never going to get anywhere. So that's my one thing. And the other thing I'm going to mention is measuring our outcomes across a basket of stuff. Not just the carbon, but also the biodiversity and the water and the animal welfare and the social impacts. So really looking at a holistic measure of our farm.
Uh, and being really honest with ourselves about where we're good and where we can still pull up our socks further. And I think all of us need to be doing that to have that bit of a health check and think about where do I need to prioritize to really develop the resilience of our farming system. We're nearly at the end of today's episode, but before we close.
It's time for our showstoppers. Uh, these are three of the key points that our listeners might like to take away from today's podcast. And it's been a really tricky one. I often say it, but, uh, I definitely mean it today to try and distill our chat down to just three things. I think first of all, the overwhelming sense is that most farms are feeling vulnerable at the moment.
There's a murkiness to coin a phrase and. While change is certain, certainty is certainly not very forthcoming at the moment. So how do we move forward? I think probably this can be split into two different areas. Thinking about our farm operations. There seems to be a real opportunity for increased working together, and it's quite apt that we're doing a podcast for Cornish Mutual who are just celebrating their 120th anniversary.
You know, Cornish Mutual was started out of a desire to collaborate, to support each other as a farming group. And this is something that actually we probably need to get back towards, to think about buying groups, to think about shared ownership, to think about reducing risk with soil at the heart. And then finally, what are the opportunities away from farming?
So it might be that we get paid for environmental goods. It may be that we get paid for carbon, um, in the end, but we're probably not there now, but think about what the strengths and the opportunities are for your business in your location with your skills, you know, is there an opportunity to get off farm income?
Before we go, we're asking everybody the same closing question this series in three words, what skills or attributes will farmers of the future require to be successful? Jake, can I come to you first? So I've, um, I've come for being flexible. in your collaboration and have attention to detail. That's great.
Thank you very much. Very pithy. Helen, what have you got for us? Uh, I think resilience in all its forms. Um, a bit of a naive optimism, um, uh, or positivity. Um, you know, I think we need to keep our heads up here and, uh, and adaptability. I'll go for those three. There's definitely a theme forming. We'll see how, uh, how that goes through the series.
Thank you ever so much. That's it for today's episode. Thank you again to my guest, Helen Browning and Jake Freestone. In our next episode, we'll be exploring family succession and outlining how to create a family charter with Nuffield scholar, Peter Craven. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show and give us a rating and a review.
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You've been listening to Farming Focus brought to you by Cornish Mutual. I've been Peter Green. Until next time, it's goodbye from me and everyone in the Cornish Mutual podcast team. Cornish Mutual. Farming insurance experts.